Anonapersona Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Who are you talking about here? Quebec is as much of a country as Scotland is. Its up to individuals how they define country. I'm talking about Puerto Rico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The question I'd like to ask no voters is this: Scotland is the only country ever to reject independence - what do you feel about that? feel fine thanks for asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 you can define country however you want to. tbh every yes side in an independence referendum says it would be the first country to reject independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Thank you Reynard. I can see your human side in this post. Some of the Force is left in him. He still saved can be.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Everyone's answer is basically. "Guarantee me more money and I'd vote yes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Being the only country to reject independence how do you feel about that? And.... bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 And.... bullshit. Well Puerto Rico or whatever. Fancy a stab at the other ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon_alibion Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 What were your main reasons for voting NO in short bullet points? 1. The economic case didn't stack up. Currency issues are "short-term" in the sense they'd be sorted out one way or another, but nevertheless you need a genuinely good reason to vote yourself into a short-term financial crisis and that's where we'd be heading if we didn't sort the currency out properly. More damaging, however, is that the long-term fiscal projections would have us being poorer even if we did get over the short-term issues (short of some mythical "growth factor" or discovering more oil). 2. We're already closely integrated with the rest of the UK economically, culturally, socially (and so on). We benefit from that - sharing a currency is a good thing, sharing market regulations is a good thing, having shared environmental policies, for instance, benefits everyone - so the question should be what decisions we share and what decisions we make in Edinburgh, not whether we should sever every formal tie with the rest of the UK just to be "independent" (while still in reality being tied to UK decisions anyway). If you stop thinking in terms of nation states/flags and just think about what kind of political system benefits the people who live here then independence genuinely has no real benefits over a federal solution in my eyes (so why not push for that instead?) 3. Whether anybody wants to admit it or not, Scottish nationalism is still nationalism. It's based on the idea that the solution to problems isn't found in particular policies, but in appeals to identity and in apportioning blame for every ill in society on to people/places that aren't part of "our" group. All nationalism functions on that basis - in the SNP's case the external influence we need to get rid of is London so we have a series of vaguely plausible arguments put forward as to why getting rid of this influence will improve our lot (they're stealing our resources to build fancy train systems, they're all right-wing whereas we're left-wing, they're all Eurosceptic whereas we're pro-EU, they're all warmongers whereas we're pacifists... and so on). If people want to buy into that kind of stuff then fine, but I detest this kind of identity politics and I have no intention of joining a movement built on that basis. I want evidence-based policy that actually improves our lives, not populist blame politics. The fact that the SNP are 'civic nationalists' (i.e. they define our group on the basis of who lives here, not ethnicity) doesn't make their political platform any more logical (just less unpleasant than other forms of nationalism). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Well Puerto Rico or whatever. Fancy a stab at the other ones? Montenegro. They're independent now, but the first time was a No vote. Bermuda as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 cos am a pyooor die hard proddy who hates catholics. yasssss w.a.t.p ...said everyone on Rangers Media. That website must have been quiet when the shenanigans were going on in George Square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Everyone's answer is basically. "Guarantee me more money and I'd vote yes" Nah that's harsh - and unhelpful. The thing that strikes me is the 'feel British' element. I don't feel British at all - and I'm convinced that a majority of Scots don't feel British enough to vote against independence. There's a big chunk out there that see the UK as their nation and don't want to see that broken up - which is absolutely fine. The wealthy were also always going to be against - given the nature of the campaign. Again, understandable (although selfish) Its the rest that shat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyerTon Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Have a look at this: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/scottish-independence-learn-from-quebecs-mistakes-and-beware-lastminute-promises-vote-yes-9737607.html By the way, don't be surprised if Westminster pass a law to prevent any more future referendums on independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Montenegro. They're independent now, but the first time was a No vote. Bermuda as well. New Caledonia. ETA: I don't think any of this really matters. It might be unusual, but Scotland isn't the first country to reject independence at the ballot box, and it won't be the last. Different places have their own sets of circumstances, and I don't think there are that many places in the World that are that comparable to the situation Scotland is in. The UK isn't (a few pockets excepted) riven by ethnic or sectarian rivalries. Nor is Scotland a colonial outpost oppressed by a distant power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Everyone's answer is basically. "Guarantee me more money and I'd vote yes" None have said guarantee me more money. Being convinced that the economic proposals were good enough to keep a roof over your head & food on the table let alone maintaining your current lifestyle weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Nah that's harsh - and unhelpful. The thing that strikes me is the 'feel British' element. I don't feel British at all - and I'm convinced that a majority of Scots don't feel British enough to vote against independence. There's a big chunk out there that see the UK as their nation and don't want to see that broken up - which is absolutely fine. The wealthy were also always going to be against - given the nature of the campaign. Again, understandable (although selfish) Its the rest that shat it. Define "wealthy" and if the "poor" were only voting for independence in the hope that they would get a "fairer" handout......isn't that selfish by the same account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 New Caledonia. ETA: I don't think any of this really matters. It might be unusual, but Scotland isn't the first country to reject independence at the ballot box, and it won't be the last. Different places have their own sets of circumstances, and I don't think there are that many places in the World that are that comparable to the situation Scotland is in. The UK isn't (a few pockets excepted) riven by ethnic or sectarian rivalries. Nor is Scotland a colonial outpost oppressed by a distant power. Yeah I think a problem that Yes faced from the outset was that a good proportion of people living in Scotland do indeed get a good deal out of the country being in the Union. Also didn't the last census have about 8% as classing themselves as British only? Surely they're all automatically a No? At the end of the day, if the Union was a genuinely equal partnership between the four countries, the SNP would be nowhere and a referendum wouldn't have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowdenConvert Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 None have said guarantee me more money. Being convinced that the economic proposals were good enough to keep a roof over your head & food on the table let alone maintaining your current lifestyle weren't. If Salmond had guaranteed me more money i'd have voted yes. I still want that holiday house in Portugal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Montenegro. They're independent now, but the first time was a No vote. Bermuda as well. Just looked that up. Only 4% voted to become independent from FR Yugoslavia. HOWS 45% LOOKING NOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just looked that up. Only 4% voted to become independent from FR Yugoslavia. HOWS 45% LOOKING NOW! ^^ Crying while he typed this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Being convinced that the economic proposals were good enough to keep a roof over your head & food on the table let alone maintaining your current lifestyle weren't. That's pretty melodramatic in my opinion mate. I was prepared in fact even expected, a wee hit financially initially with a Yes, but I wouldn't go as far as that(roof and food). I do get the economic plans were a bit half baked for a lot of people, especially on the currency, but I don't think there will ever be a situation where it's all mapped out. There's always going to be imponderables in a referendum on massive constitutional change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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