Baxter Parp Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Dilution, you just need to have a look at the lib dems. Once the third largest party in the uk, now ? The momentum they once had has been lost. It's how a two party system works. The LibDems signed their own death warrant when they formed a coalition with the Tories against the will and instinct of their own voter base. Nothing to do with dilution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Same would apply if. the SNP signed up with an absolute incompetent Labour. Not untrue. However they won't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Same would apply if. the SNP signed up with an absolute incompetent Labour. As I said, there's no sign of any intention to do so but I think Scots may understand why the SNP would do so after an election and it depends on what happens afterwards. Nobody could understand why the Lib Dems would sign up to a Tory coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 ....especially when there was a viable centre left option instead. The Scots Lib Dems are paying the price for not being a separate affiliated party like Alliance in NI. From a Scottish standpoint the coalition was electoral suicide, because they get in based on anti-Tory tactical voting, but there are a lot of constituencies in England where Labour are the main enemy of the Lib Dems and a Tory alignment seemed natural to Lib Dem MPs and activists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I see actor Brian Cox has quit Labour and joined the SNP. This to a certain extent backs up what been said about Labour supporters totally turning their backs on Labour. I've seen it myself at grassroots level, life long Labour supporters saying they will no longer vote Labour. Biggest surprise for me was a fellow work colleague who voted No and was a Labour man all his life now saying he'll not vote Labour anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Brian Cox - “I always believed the Labour Party stood for social democracy but sadly I no longer believe they do and, as I say, it is with deep sadness that I am resigning from the party - a party I believed in but has now failed in the last few years to live up to its basic principles. “I feel the Scottish National Party is the party taking forward values of social justice and represents Scotland’s best interests and that is why I have, like many other Labour supporters, decided to become a member of the SNP.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I've always liked Cox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Whether officially or not I think Sturgeon has said they will not enter a formal coalition by seeking seats in the cabinet but would be willing to provide support to a Labour minority government in confidence motions which includes budgets. Whether Milliband would accept those terms is only going to be addressed if the situation happens. Even if they have to pull in Plaid Cymru's 3 MPs in my opinion this would be a better option than any deal with the Lib Dems. The latest guardian poll would put this at 273 Labour, 49 SNP and 3 PC which would be 325 which is enough for a slim majority assuming Sinn Fein maintain their non participant position. In this situation Milliband has a chance to show he is up to being Prime Minister even if he would struggle to get everything he wants. But he would get the budgets and spending bills which is the main thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The guy is a buffoon. Most of the country will think that regardless of what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The guy is a buffoon. Most of the country will think that regardless of what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I know Labour are more or less power at all costs orientated, but does anyone think they'd actually be willing to scrap trident in order to get SNP support? I'd be stunned if that was the case. If the SNP insist on scrapping trident as a deal breaker then I think they'll be excluded, because neither of the two main parties appear willing to compromise on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Same would apply if. the SNP signed up with an absolute incompetent Labour. Depends what they get. Libs went for an AV ref. It completely failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I know Labour are more or less power at all costs orientated, but does anyone think they'd actually be willing to scrap trident in order to get SNP support? I'd be stunned if that was the case. The SNP want it removed from Scotland. Labour could always commit to moving it elsewhere in the UK at some point in the future, which makes sense strategically from an MoD perspective given a second referendum is far from inconceivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm pretty certain moving Trident down south won't be enough if that's a deal breaker for the SNP. We'd still be paying for it but get none of the 'cash back' of having it in Scotland. If we do end up in a situation where a Labour minority need the SNPs support, whether it's a formal coalition or not I'd imagine beefing up the Smith commission powers will be top priority. It's a more than reasonable request as a majority of Scottish MPs is arguably a mandate for it. it would be difficult for Labour to refuse it given all their mouthing off about 'Home Rule' and would most likely finish them off in Scotland if they did. It also doesn't really cost them anything in terms of their manifesto. They'd have to cut their nose off to spite their face over the constitution, which is a good position to put them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Does anyone think Labour would be doing better in Scotland if they had a better leader than Miliband? He's terrible but their problems seem to go far beyond any one man. I think the aftermath of the referendum was far more damaging to Labour than it was beneficial to the SNP (although I guess maybe those things go hand in hand?) I do think a better leader would be doing a lot better in England and Wales. How you can be behind Cameron & Co in the polls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I know Labour are more or less power at all costs orientated, but does anyone think they'd actually be willing to scrap trident in order to get SNP support? I'd be stunned if that was the case. If the SNP insist on scrapping trident as a deal breaker then I think they'll be excluded, because neither of the two main parties appear willing to compromise on it. Good luck trying to run a country on less than 300 Parliamentary seats then. The Irish Home Rule MPs spent decades trolling Westminster in order to achieve their aims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Does anyone think Labour would be doing better in Scotland if they had a better leader than Miliband? He's terrible but their problems seem to go far beyond any one man. I think the aftermath of the referendum was far more damaging to Labour than it was beneficial to the SNP (although I guess maybe those things go hand in hand?) I do think a better leader would be doing a lot better in England and Wales. How you can be behind Cameron & Co in the polls? Milliband is just a symptom of the problem. He became leader mostly as the result of trade union corruption. Milliband is no different than Blair. He's not very relateable or likeable, and it's not very clear what he stands for (which alone is enough for me to be distrustful of him). Don't forget he was treasury adviser to Gordon Brown throughout his stewardship as Chancellor. So he can't exactly absolve himself for what happened towards the end of the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 No different from Blair? Whether you like him or not, Blair was extremely popular with many. Milliband could only dream of being anywhere near as popular as Tony Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 No different from Blair? Whether you like him or not, Blair was extremely popular with many. Milliband could only dream of being anywhere near as popular as Tony Blair. I doubt popularity is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Blair was a c*nt with a personality. Milliband is just a c*nt. There is your difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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