New Rangers and the poppy.

[flyingrodent]

Do you know what a wedge issue is?

I'm led to believe that it's a topic that is exploited to inflame angrily partisan argument, with the explicit goal of dividing opinion for political gain by reinforcing tribalistic tendencies, usually employed by appalling fannies.

[hellbhoy]

It should be "Your a" HTH.

Try reading it again in context you twit.

[forever_blue]

Try reading it again in context you twit.

Like you did with my post?

[dorlomin]

I'm led to believe that it's a topic that is exploited to inflame angrily partisan argument, with the explicit goal of dividing opinion for political gain by reinforcing tribalistic tendencies, usually employed by appalling fannies.

So once again

A wedge issue for who? Who is split by it?

[hellbhoy]

Again you are arguing a completely different point to my post , the reason Germans are not speaking English is because we were not an invading force in ww2 whereas Germany was , so if the Germans were successfull in invading Britain we would almost certainly have had German culture and language forced upon us just like the other countries Germany had already invaded.

Also last two wars? Are you being genuinely stupid, Britains military forces has been involved in numerous wars and operations since ww2!

First part of your post I'll ignore and the second part ?, how do we honour the fallen in a war that was deemed illegal ?, ie we invaded a country illegally just so as to keep the flow of oil running in Iraq.

The only wars Britain is interested in going to are in countries who have something our economy can benefit from, there are countries we don't give a fcuk about because they have fcuk all we can exploit.

Modern warfare is a sham to keep the corporate agenda, no one is ever going to invade Britain so why do we keep getting involved in other countries affairs only when there is financial gain to Britain.

[hellbhoy]

That is a strong accusation. I take it you will not be able to back it up nor be mature enough to withdraw the accusation.

I notice you left an actual counter argument out of your post. Most likely because you are not able to form one.

Which counter argument as you arguing just for the sake of arguing as you put it ?

When were veterans of wars other than the two world wars excluded from remembrance services?

Veterans ?, what the fcuk have they got to do with remembering the dead if they are alive ffs.

[flyingrodent]

A wedge issue for who? Who is split by it?

A wedge issue for flag-waving right-wing politicians and hacks, of which there are many in the UK. Buy a Telegraph, an Express or a Mail, or listen to what Michael Gove and other politicians have to say about it, if you doubt this. It's not like they hide this stuff from plain sight - they really are very forthright about it and go out of their way to get their message onto every available outlet.

A wedge issue for mad-O Galloway, Phil McWhatever types, who are only too happy to tell the nation that the poppy is an imperialistic symbol of who knows what, and are very keen to get as wide an audience as possible.

And the British public are split by it, into people who love and honour Our Brave Boys, and people who get all nervous and upset about rampant jingoism. I'll offer this thread as a small but representative example of the kind of wackiness that can ensue, coloured as it is by football allegiances.

Again, the only excuse for not being aware of this is if you don't consume any hard-copy or online media. I assume you catch the odd bit of news yourself.

[hellbhoy]

Like you did with my post?

I do that with a lot of shit posts so don't take offence precious one.

[forever_blue]

I do that with a lot of shit posts so don't take offence precious one.

Maybe haggis pakora has the same idea

[dorlomin]

A wedge issue for who? Who is split by it?

A wedge issue for flag-waving right-wing politicians and hacks, of which there are many in the UK.

It does not wedge them it unites them

A wedge issue for mad-O Galloway, Phil McWhatever types, who are only too happy to tell the nation that the poppy is an imperialistic symbol of who knows what, and are very keen to get as wide an audience as possible.

You really think poppy day is being promoted to split these people? Again you dont seem to know what a wedge issue is.

Again, the only excuse for not being aware of this is if you don't consume any hard-copy or online media. I assume you catch the odd bit of news yourself.

You are so vain you are trying to patronise me!

[dorlomin]

Which counter argument as you arguing

The ones you seem not to be able to muster.

Veterans ?, what the fcuk have they got to do with remembering the dead if they are alive ffs.

[flyingrodent]

It does not wedge them it unites them

Against a common domestic foe, which is really the whole point of the exercise rather than any noble purpose, for many.

You really think poppy day is being promoted to split these people?

I think Remembrance Day is consistently, intentionally and habitually exploited by some people to divide rather than unite, yes. A brief glance at certain newspapers in the run-up to it would confirm this beyond doubt.

You are so vain you are trying to patronise me!

I'm very, very vain indeed, and you don't make it difficult.

[hellbhoy]

The ones you seem not to be able to muster.

I did ask you to explicitly post the counter arguments so that you could put forward your point.

[bhoy who invented weetabix]

What the fucking f**k?

Mods lock this thread, my eyes are bleeding

[dorlomin]

Against a common domestic foe, which is really the whole point of the exercise rather than any noble purpose, for many.

So not a wedge issue for them.

I think Remembrance Day is consistently, intentionally and habitually exploited by some people to divide rather than unite, yes.

I think you are a playing the paranoid victim again. Its not a "culture war" and only a "wedge issue" against a group so insignificant few outside of Scotland are aware they exist.

[hellbhoy]

It does not wedge them it unites them

Against a common domestic foe, which is really the whole point of the exercise rather than any noble purpose, for many.

You really think poppy day is being promoted to split these people?

I think Remembrance Day is consistently, intentionally and habitually exploited by some people to divide rather than unite, yes. A brief glance at certain newspapers in the run-up to it would confirm this beyond doubt.

You are so vain you are trying to patronise me!

I'm very, very vain indeed, and you don't make it difficult.

Back when I was a youngster on Remembrance day at 12 O'clock the church bells would chime and everyone stood for a minute where they were and remember the fallen.

Nowadays it's a fucking freak show that the government abuse for a photo opportunity to show how kind and understanding they are. Fucking mutants the lot of them using it as a political tool to be exploited in their demented agenda to win your vote. "Oh look I was at the memorial held by the Queen and was seen on TV, you can trust me I'm very British please give me your vote".

[hellbhoy]

What the fucking f**k?

Mods lock this thread, my eyes are bleeding

Avoid the thread and going into it, simples.

[The_Kincardine]

And the British public are split by it, into people who love and honour Our Brave Boys, and people who get all nervous and upset about rampant jingoism.

I think your view is a wee bit simplistic. For me there are 4 poppy-hijackers whom I despise:

• The politicians for whom the poppy is an expression of bravery and a perverse justification of taking us in to wars that we should have no part in.

• The jingoistic tub-thumpers who see it as a British shibboleth. You’ll find a lot in Govan.

• The jingoistic tub-thumpers who see it as an expression of British imperialistic triumphalism. You’ll find a lot in Parkhead.

• The British Legion whose agenda is benign but whose approach has been wrong-headed. They have upped the poppy-anti to raise funds for the support of ex-servicemen. This is admirable and has been successful. In doing so they have become a poppy-hijacker and they should have lobbied for better support for a professional army from their employers.

When I was in the Boys Brigade in the 70s we always went on parade on Remembrance Sunday and the emphasis was on “the war to end all wars” and “lest we forget” and, most importantly, “let’s just stop killing folk”. I thinking, aside from the four groups I noted above, most of the rest of us are in that camp.

[flyingrodent]

I think you are a playing the paranoid victim again. Its not a "culture war" and only a "wedge issue" against a group so insignificant few outside of Scotland are aware they exist.

Thanks to that statement, I've now realised that you actually seem to think that I'm talking about some Celtic fans with weird views.

I was talking about how people of various ethnicities, religions and political standpoints throughout the entire UK have varying and often very strident opinions on the matter, from a variety of viewpoints, that still play out in a predictable manner in the British press every single year. I was saying that there's an observable trend towards politicising Remembrance Day, and how certain factions in the British political and media establishment exploit the issue for gain, even if that gain is only a few votes or a few more papers sold.

But you know, whoo, those insignificant Scottish groups and their habit of putting the word "Celtic" under "My Team" on Pie & Bov. Jesus, they do have their opinions, don't they.

[flyingrodent]

I think your view is a wee bit simplistic. For me there are 4 poppy-hijackers whom I despise:

• The politicians for whom the poppy is an expression of bravery and a perverse justification of taking us in to wars that we should have no part in.

• The jingoistic tub-thumpers who see it as a British shibboleth. You’ll find a lot in Govan.

• The jingoistic tub-thumpers who see it as an expression of British imperialistic triumphalism. You’ll find a lot in Parkhead.

• The British Legion whose agenda is benign but whose approach has been wrong-headed. They have upped the poppy-anti to raise funds for the support of ex-servicemen. This is admirable and has been successful. In doing so they have become a poppy-hijacker and they should have lobbied for better support for a professional army from their employers.

When I was in the Boys Brigade in the 70s we always went on parade on Remembrance Sunday and the emphasis was on “the war to end all wars” and “lest we forget” and, most importantly, “let’s just stop killing folk”. I thinking, aside from the four groups I noted above, most of the rest of us are in that camp.

I totally endorse this view, especially the part about "Let's just stop killing folk". I think you've missed out a lot of hacks who couldn't care less about Our Boys and just use the issue as an excuse to rile up idiots, but you're pretty much right.