New Rangers and the poppy.

[haggis pakora]

Try reading it again in context you twit.

Because you are that thick,it's not my problem.

[dorlomin]

I was talking about how people of various ethnicities, religions and political standpoints throughout the entire UK have varying and often very strident opinions on the matter

You are rambling here. Which 'ethnicities' are you talking about.....

I was saying that there's an observable trend towards politicising Remembrance Day, and how certain factions in the British political and media establishment exploit the issue for gain,

What I think is people like you would much prefer if the recent causalities were made to disappear into a hole so you could safely remember people from the far past rather than feel forced to pay respects to people from recent conflicts.

I also think a lot of people cannot separate Help for Heroes with the RBL.

[youngsy]

To put it blunty F_B, remembrance day should be for all of the fallen from all the wars Britain has fought in and not just the last two wars just because Britain for once didn't start them. Do you see the spin in there ?, it's a government promoted politically spinned agenda, let's forget all the wars we started and focus on the last two we didn't start.

As for your spelling ?, let me help you padawan. When composing a new post, type a word, move the mouse pointer over it, right click and scroll down to the spellcheck option and choose UK English ffs.

The poppy is recognised as the Flower of Remembrance for all the fallen in all conflicts, not just WW1 or WW2.

[The_Kincardine]

You are rambling here. Which 'ethnicities' are you talking about.....

What I think is people like you would much prefer if the recent causalities were made to disappear into a hole so you could safely remember people from the far past rather than feel forced to pay respects to people from recent conflicts.

I also think a lot of people cannot separate Help for Heroes with the RBL.

Dor there is a problem here. I have no issue supporting either the RBL or giving to Help for Heroes but a distinction has to be made and we have to avoid the poppy being politicised and hijacked.

[flyingrodent]

What I think is people like you would much prefer if the recent causalities were made to disappear into a hole so you could safely remember people from the far past rather than feel forced to pay respects to people from recent conflicts.

Well, let's skip over "people like you" and head straight into "the far past", which isn't all that far past at all.

I think that Remembrance Day, whatever it was originally intended to be, has long since become a way of turning an unimaginably vast pile of senselessly murdered youngsters into a faintly teary and sanitised exercise in prettifying horrors via nice little flowers and dress-up ceremonies.

Further, I think it's now being intentionally transformed into a trolling excuse to gloss over more recent military debacles in which many more people were killed for no sane reason, out of expediency.

I do understand that you're trying to imply nastier motives, however.

[dorlomin]

we have to avoid the poppy being politicised and hijacked.

Other than the occasional kefuffle over someone not wearing one on TV, when has the poppy been politicised?

Everyone seems to agree it has been politicised but examples seem few on the ground.

[dorlomin]

Well, let's skip over

Lets not skip over

I was talking about how people of various ethnicities, religions

I think that Remembrance Day, whatever it was originally intended to be, has long since become a way of turning an unimaginably vast pile of senselessly murdered youngsters

I think you are once again deliberately inventing a past that never existed. I think you will find that the "senseless" for WWI was largely from the post WWII era and no one ever suggest WWII was senseless.

I suspect you are sanatising a fake history of remembrance Sunday to meet a modern political end.

Here is the original unveiling of the cenotaph

If someone put a union jack that size on it this year you lot would go apeshit at how it had become "politicised". Funny how you never read the inscriptions of with things like "The Glorious Dead", not exactly "futile" or "senseless".

[flyingrodent]

Lets not skip over

I think you are once again deliberately inventing a past that never existed. I think you will find that the "senseless" for WWI was largely from the post WWII era and no one ever suggest WWII was senseless.

I suspect you are sanatising a fake history of remembrance Sunday to meet a modern political end.

Here is the original unveiling of the cenotaph

If someone put a union jack that size on it this year you lot would go apeshit at how it had become "politicised". Funny how you never read the inscriptions of with things like "The Glorious Dead", not exactly "futile" or "senseless".

I'm off to my bed and may come back to this tomorrow, but I think the crucial words here are "you lot", which I don't imagine means "instinctive pacifists".

[The_Kincardine]

Here is the original unveiling of the cenotaph

If someone put a union jack that size on it this year you lot would go apeshit at how it had become "politicised".

Nah, I'm just disappointed I can't see, "No Surrender Dumbarton" anywhere.

[flyingrodent]

By way of example of what I was talking about, see today's Express... http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/532770/Stephen-Pollard-Tower-of-London-poppies

Compare and contrast a) the amount of ink spent on remembering the fallen with b) harshing on people who don't agree with him on this one art installation - sneering, sneers, sneers... at the views of "normal people"; the left, guardian readers, poseurs who think they are superior to the rest of us, "his ilk... alien from the rest of us", and so on and on.

Now, do we think that Mr Pollard is trying to foster national unity here? Or, does he have some other purpose in mind?

And again, this type of thing may be an egregious example, but it's common to every one of the daft papers, pretty much every day between the 1st and 11th of November, every year.

[bhoy who invented weetabix]

This thread and others like it are getting beyond tedious, those who wear a poppy are well within their rights to do so but there is no doubt it, and armed forces day etc are hijacked by the UK government to drum up support and deflect from the fact they are involved in presently, and in the past morally wrong conflicts

That isnt an excuse for desecrating the minutes silence if you dont agree with it. I dont wear a poppy (If it was only for WW1 & WW2 I would) due to the places and conflicts British troops had no right being involved in but I wouldnt disrupt a tribute to this either

There are many posters, on here outwith Celtic and The Rangers fans who feel that poppies on shirts and parading soldiers round the pitch is too far, I have to agree with this. One club in particular go well over the score on this front, turning it into a rather distasteful display of jingoistic shite, you know who you are

One final point, only reading this thread have I heard about fake poppy sellers at The Rangers games who are probably pocketing the cash, that is vile and if they are spotted at games and rumbled they deserve all the abuse they get

[Podlie]

Direct debit to Erskine every month, am ex forces, dislike the poppy being politicised by right wing cuntos not bought one to wear for a couple of years. Any smug c**t says anything when out I just tell them to eff off and go get their medals.

[hellbhoy]

The poppy is recognised as the Flower of Remembrance for all the fallen in all conflicts, not just WW1 or WW2.

So we are now to remember the fallen in wars that Britain started for financial gain to the empire now ?, we are to honour those who murdered innocent victims of Britain expanding it's empire so the rich get richer ?.

I look forward to your steaming pile of pish to justify the killing of innocent victims for profit but we have to somehow honour the murderers who killed them just because the establishment who has blinded you into believing some other demented way of thinking other than what really actually happened.

I do however honour those who lost their lives to defend the country I now live in because of their sacrifice.

[haggis pakora]

So we are now to remember the fallen in wars that Britain started for financial gain to the empire now ?, we are to honour those who murdered innocent victims of Britain expanding it's empire so the rich get richer ?.

I look forward to your steaming pile of pish to justify the killing of innocent victims for profit but we have to somehow honour the murderers who killed them just because the establishment who has blinded you into believing some other demented way of thinking other than what really actually happened.

I do however honour those who lost their lives to defend the country I now live in because of their sacrifice.

Is that you just woke up out of your weekend drunken slumber?

[youngsy]

So we are now to remember the fallen in wars that Britain started for financial gain to the empire now ?, we are to honour those who murdered innocent victims of Britain expanding it's empire so the rich get richer ?.

I look forward to your steaming pile of pish to justify the killing of innocent victims for profit but we have to somehow honour the murderers who killed them just because the establishment who has blinded you into believing some other demented way of thinking other than what really actually happened.

I do however honour those who lost their lives to defend the country I now live in because of their sacrifice.

I'll state it again just so you'll understand; the RBL honour those from any side or country that have fallen in all conflicts. The politics of war have nothing whatsoever to do with remembering the fallen from all sides in any conflict. Certainly various British governments are anything but innocent in various conflicts but again the politics have nothing whatsoever to do with remembering those that perished in all conflicts. Hope that's clear enough for you.

[haggis pakora]

I'll state it again just so you'll understand; the RBL honour those from any side or country that have fallen in all conflicts. The politics of war have nothing whatsoever to do with remembering the fallen from all sides in any conflict. Certainly various British governments are anything but innocent in various conflicts but again the politics have nothing whatsoever to do with remembering those that perished in all conflicts. Hope that's clear enough for you.

I would not explanin any thing to that buckefast dwelling imbecile, he is to drunk to have a reasonable debate with.

Keep it for another flight.

[jester]

What's changed ? How about your fans at the Emirates abusing the British Army (murdering bast*rds) How about your fans singing 'You're not Drumming anymore' at Brentford etc.. etc..

Stick your feigned bloostained outrage up yer arse!

The picture dictionary definition of 'whitabootery'

[jester]

You are rambling here. Which 'ethnicities' are you talking about.....

What I think is people like you would much prefer if the recent causalities were made to disappear into a hole so you could safely remember people from the far past rather than feel forced to pay respects to people from recent conflicts.

I also think a lot of people cannot separate Help for Heroes with the RBL.

Millions of people marched against recent conflicts. Why then would they pay respect to people fighting for a cause they were utterly opposed to?

[jester]

I think your view is a wee bit simplistic. For me there are 4 poppy-hijackers whom I despise:

• The politicians for whom the poppy is an expression of bravery and a perverse justification of taking us in to wars that we should have no part in.

• The jingoistic tub-thumpers who see it as a British shibboleth. You’ll find a lot in Govan.

• The jingoistic tub-thumpers who see it as an expression of British imperialistic triumphalism. You’ll find a lot in Parkhead.

• The British Legion whose agenda is benign but whose approach has been wrong-headed. They have upped the poppy-anti to raise funds for the support of ex-servicemen. This is admirable and has been successful. In doing so they have become a poppy-hijacker and they should have lobbied for better support for a professional army from their employers.

When I was in the Boys Brigade in the 70s we always went on parade on Remembrance Sunday and the emphasis was on “the war to end all wars” and “lest we forget” and, most importantly, “let’s just stop killing folk”. I thinking, aside from the four groups I noted above, most of the rest of us are in that camp.

Agreed. There seems to be less emphasis on the 'never again' aspect and more emphasis on our brave boys in Afghaniraqistan. What should have been a solemn occasion is now hijacked by by tackiness (how's about a pizza with pepperoni and olives tastefullylessly arranged in the shape of a poppy) and show. Cars with big poppies on the front. Trucks with even bigger poppies on the front. It's became something far removed from what it was, a pissing contest to show who loves our boys more.

[Jacksgranda]

Agreed. There seems to be less emphasis on the 'never again' aspect and more emphasis on our brave boys in Afghaniraqistan. What should have been a solemn occasion is now hijacked by by tackiness (how's about a pizza with pepperoni and olives tastefullylessly arranged in the shape of a poppy) and show. Cars with big poppies on the front. Trucks with even bigger poppies on the front. It's became something far removed from what it was, a pissing contest to show who loves our boys more.

I saw a few folk wearing extra large poppies this year, which I hadn't noticed before - I hope these don't catch on, but I fear the worst.