Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's your choice, and probably extrapolated a bit in the case of a by-election that coincides with a national poll, however in the case of a council election where people actually need to be motivated to go and vote the clear trend is that personal votes are vvvvvv relevant You're talking shite. If you just accept that maybe we can move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The majority don't really care about council elections so you would think it would be easier for a personal vote to be a factor. However with the current Scottish Council elections it is more important to be at the top of the party list on the ballot with some councillors going as far as changing names and rigging which more junior party members are in their ward. It is very much a still voting for a political party. There are no party lists in the Scottish council elections, STV is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I disagree. 'Left-wing' is broader, and not an absolute phrase. I have views far to the left, and views on the right, as well as those more centrist. Overall, on balance, I find myself roughly where New Labour found themselves. I believe strongly in certain left-wing principles that people far to the left of me would also support, but find that in others, in the era we live in, I take a more pragmatic view. I don't support mass nationalisation (though I do support limited nationalisation of certain industries), I don't believe equality is realistically achievable, however I am in favour of the welfare state and creating equality of opportunity, I do believe in big government and using government to reduce poverty and help the worst off in our society. I disagree with some left wing views and support others, but believe 'left-wing' encompasses the beliefs I hold. That's cause you want to think of yourself as left-wing though, you just can't just make up a meaning to it then say there you go I'm left-wing. You're not, and neither are Labour. You openly say New Labour are where your views fit, well New Labour were not left-wing. This isn't opinion its simple fact, google it, New Labour were centre-left (that's not left-wing) and have been veering further right ever since. And people like you want them to go further right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's your choice, and probably extrapolated a bit in the case of a by-election that coincides with a national poll, however in the case of a council election where people actually need to be motivated to go and vote the clear trend is that personal votes are vvvvvv relevant Ive been a passionate SNP voter for a lot of decades and have voted at every chance I got. I can vaguely remember when the first multi-choice voting forms came out. As ever I just looked for the SNP symbol and marked it accordingly. I have idea what others did but are you suggesting folk go to council elections and fill in the form like a football coupon. If you vote SNP why would you give a vote to another party? If you vote for any other party why would you give a vote to the SNP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Everything left of centre I would put under the umbrella of 'left wing'. Remember when the Labour Party used to fall under this umbrella. Memories eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 For a decent poster on the football boards you come across as a confrontational p***k on this one. I'm sure he's most upset that he's managed to make a Unionist seethe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 He still comes across better than you. Drop the seethe chat, nobody is seething. ^^^ seething Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Labour are centre-right. Tony Blair was centre-right. The Labour Party hasn't driven on the correct side of the road in over twenty years. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a bit thick or desperately unlearned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 How could they return to a place they've never been? Taxing non-doms at a fairer rate, the mansion tax, vaguely softening the austerity drive, at least talking about energy prices and so on - these are not extreme left positions by any means. If I'd thought for one second that Miliband would ever try to implement any of them, he might have got my vote. But I saw him spend three years as the Energy and Climate Change Secretary without challenging the energy cartel once. Then I saw him spend a year and a half deciding whether or not he should oppose the Bedroom Tax. Then I saw him and Balls competing with Osborne to say how much they wouldn't share Scotland's currency with Scotland... They didn't lose because they went too far left. They lost because they were shite. Good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I couldn't agree more with the phrases in bold. How anyone could think a Blair government could be left wing is frankly unbelievable. Surely that is the problem with Scottish Labour. At one time they were left-ish leaning but that was no good for the English Labour Party. So they changed to a poor imitation of the ELP....and that was no good for the SLP (and Scotland). They relied on their name in Scotland.... and it ran out. Some of Blairs policy would have put thatcher to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Everything left of centre I would put under the umbrella of 'left wing'. Labour should be a social democratic party as the SNP probably are. I don't really want to see Labour return to the extreme left, ideologically or pragmatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Labour are centre-right. Tony Blair was centre-right. The Labour Party hasn't driven on the correct side of the road in over twenty years. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a bit thick or desperately unlearned. I let my membership of the Labour Party lapse almost exactly 20 years ago. It was obvious the direction they had already started to take and were further heading in. The saddest thing for me was the amount of people I knew who held broadly similar views to myself continued to be members. In fairness many of them drifted away in subsequent years, though a few still remain. Many I knew who held elected office seemed to think continuing to hold that office was the most important thing; few or none took and stance on the direction the party was going. Iraq changed it for some, but again far less than I would have hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I let my membership of the Labour Party lapse almost exactly 20 years ago. It was obvious the direction they had already started to take and were further heading in. The saddest thing for me was the amount of people I knew who held broadly similar views to myself continued to be members. In fairness many of them drifted away in subsequent years, though a few still remain. Many I knew who held elected office seemed to think continuing to hold that office was the most important thing; few or none took and stance on the direction the party was going. Iraq changed it for some, but again far less than I would have hoped. They killed Robin Cook over his stance on Iraq. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Where is Jim?Normally you cant get him off any media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 They killed Robin Cook over his stance on Iraq. Probably. No "they" didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 No "they" didn't. I'm joking. But they did kill Dr David Kelly over it, I'm not joking with that one. Results of the enquiry into his death sealed for 70 years. He was murdered by MI5 for being able to prove the government were lying to take us into an illegal war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm joking. But they did kill Dr David Kelly over it, I'm not joking with that one. Results of the enquiry into his death sealed for 70 years. He was murdered by MI5 for being able to prove the government were lying to take us into an illegal war. Hard to tell sometimes. some of the tinfoil hat brigade genuinely believe he was murdered by some kind of heart attack inducing laser. *opens can of worms* Kelly topped himself because he got in too deep. Not sure exactly what he could have proved that we don't already know. Tragic and sad but not a conspiracy imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The Red Tories in civil war on Reporting Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hard to tell sometimes. some of the tinfoil hat brigade genuinely believe he was murdered by some kind of heart attack inducing laser. *opens can of worms* Kelly topped himself because he got in too deep. Not sure exactly what he could have proved that we don't already know. Tragic and sad but not a conspiracy imo. He could have proved the govt were lying to take us into an illegal war, as I said. He was the world's foremost expert on Iraqi WMD. Why do you propose the enquiry into his death was sealed for 70 years if he committed suicide? (Long enough for everyone involved to die, same with JFK they made it 75 years for the same reason) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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