invergowrie arab Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Interesting that less than a day after Jim is resoundingly endorsed by his msps that two of them feel bold enough to call on his resignation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmadaleKillie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ive been a passionate SNP voter for a lot of decades and have voted at every chance I got. I can vaguely remember when the first multi-choice voting forms came out. As ever I just looked for the SNP symbol and marked it accordingly. I have idea what others did but are you suggesting folk go to council elections and fill in the form like a football coupon. If you vote SNP why would you give a vote to another party? If you vote for any other party why would you give a vote to the SNP? To be fair to Mr Bairn, my ward has an independent who romped home in the last council election in 1st place. Personally, he is loved in the ward, any time some local issue occurs that is discussed on FB or Twitter you can be sure that someone will mention him as the go to person. It also helps he is chairman of the local Gala day as well and his surname begins with B so he is always pretty much the first name you see on the voting sheet. However, this is an incumbent independent and he actually got in as a party member when he was first elected before quitting the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 He also said an independent Scottish Labour Party would be anti-Trident. I'd be very wary of a group of people who could do a 180 degree turn on an issue of this importance. Like u-turning on NATO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Like u-turning on NATO?Yip correctAll members had a vote those that didnt like it left the party,and all this was well before about 80k of our members joined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I let my membership of the Labour Party lapse almost exactly 20 years ago. It was obvious the direction they had already started to take and were further heading in. The saddest thing for me was the amount of people I knew who held broadly similar views to myself continued to be members. In fairness many of them drifted away in subsequent years, though a few still remain. Many I knew who held elected office seemed to think continuing to hold that office was the most important thing; few or none took and stance on the direction the party was going. Iraq changed it for some, but again far less than I would have hoped. Lapsed mine in 1994 - around the same time. It wasn't policies as such but that I could see what a bunch of political opportunists they all were - they'd sell their own granny to get elected. I knew Murphy well at the time - liked him personally even though we came from opposite wings of the Labour Party (I was in Scottish labour Action at the time). He was a very hard-working but not a principled bone in his body - hence his u-turn on the whole issue of Israel-Palestine because it was politically convenient to get elected as NUS UK President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 He could have proved the govt were lying to take us into an illegal war, as I said. He was the world's foremost expert on Iraqi WMD. Why do you propose the enquiry into his death was sealed for 70 years if he committed suicide? (Long enough for everyone involved to die, same with JFK they made it 75 years for the same reason) He wasn't the "world's foremost expert" that's complete BS. I know what you said but how was he going to prove that? All the information he had is in the public domain now. The enquiry was public, I think you are confused and it was certain evidence which had the 70 year embargo placed on it, like the postmortem. Which ended being published anyway, did it not? If you look hard enough you'll find a conspiracy anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There are no party lists in the Scottish council elections, STV is used. I know they use STV but for all practicality sake it is a list since most people vote party line and usually from top to bottom so when the candidates are listed alphabetical order it is more important to be first on the ballot for your party than run an individual campaign. Go look at the last elections in Glasgow where Labour expected to win 1 or 2 seats per ward. The senior candidate is always alphabetically before the less experienced person. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_City_Council_election,_2012 There are only a couple of instances where the incumbent effect overcame the alphabetical effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm sure he's most upset that he's managed to make a Unionist seethe. Eh, what? He was telling me that I'm talking shite in saying that personal votes are a key factor in council elections, that is 100% true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I know they use STV but for all practicality sake it is a list since most people vote party line and usually from top to bottom so when the candidates are listed alphabetical order it is more important to be first on the ballot for your party than run an individual campaign. Go look at the last elections in Glasgow where Labour expected to win 1 or 2 seats per ward. The senior candidate is always alphabetically before the less experienced person. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_City_Council_election,_2012 There are only a couple of instances where the incumbent effect overcame the alphabetical effect. The SNP do things a little differently. I have it on good authority from a sitting SNP councillor that they send leaflets to half the ward telling them to put candidate A 1 and candidate B 2, and then the other half get the opposite advice The Irish parties are expert at voter management in STV elections, look at Gerry Adams numbers in the assembly for proof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The SNP do things a little differently. I have it on good authority from a sitting SNP councillor that they send leaflets to half the ward telling them to put candidate A 1 and candidate B 2, and then the other half get the opposite advice The Irish parties are expert at voter management in STV elections, look at Gerry Adams numbers in the assembly for proof I can back this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I can back this up. Well, well, the fly buggers. I can remember getting leaflets wi' candidate 1 then candidate 2 etc. I dinnae mind as they are a' SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabinoban Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 They killed Robin Cook. Dirty b*****ds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLights Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Just when I though he couldn't be more of a twat this picture appears on my Facebook timeline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Scotland Tonight Labour drone: "I think Jim has been at the head of an absolutely excellent campaign" - indeed, the SNP campaign. "One of the best campaigns Scottish Labour has had" Fucking hell; what a bunch of absolutely craven morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Scotland Tonight Labour drone: "I think Jim has been at the head of an absolutely excellent campaign" - indeed, the SNP campaign. "One of the best campaigns Scottish Labour has had" Fucking hell; what a bunch of absolutely craven morons. I wonder what constitutes a bad campaign for Scottish Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 He wasn't the "world's foremost expert" that's complete BS. I know what you said but how was he going to prove that? All the information he had is in the public domain now. The enquiry was public, I think you are confused and it was certain evidence which had the 70 year embargo placed on it, like the postmortem. Which ended being published anyway, did it not? If you look hard enough you'll find a conspiracy anywhere. He was regarded as literally, without exaggeration, the planets number one expert on Iraq's WMD's. Google it. How do you know all the information is now in the public domain? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245599/David-Kelly-post-mortem-kept-secret-70-years-doctors-accuse-Lord-Hutton-concealing-vital-information.html If you are desperate not to believe them you won't see conspiracies anywhere. Some are actually true you know. I am what you would call a JFK buff, for example, that is true. That really was a conspiracy, a coup d'etat. Not all of them are bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 ^^^GarethBalesStupidFace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 He was regarded as literally, without exaggeration, the planets number one expert on Iraq's WMD's. Google it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 okm8.PNG What a stupid post. I expected a human being to have a tiny modicum more brain power than that. David Christopher Kelly, CMG (14 May 1944 – 17 July 2003) was a British scientist and authority on biological warfare, employed by the British Ministry of Defence, and formerly a United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq. He came to public attention in July 2003 when an unauthorised discussion he had off the record with BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan about the British government's dossier on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was cited by Gilligan and led to a major controversy. Kelly's name became known to the media as Gilligan's source and he was called to appear on 15 July before the parliamentary foreign affairs select committee investigating the issues Gilligan had reported. Kelly was questioned aggressively about his actions. He was found dead two days later.[2] British Prime Minister Tony Blair's government set up the Hutton Inquiry, a public inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the death. The inquiry concluded that Kelly had committed suicide, with the cause of death as "haemorrhage due to incised wounds of the left wrist" in combination with "coproxamol ingestion and coronary artery atherosclerosis". Lord Hutton also decided that evidence related to the death, including the post-mortem report and photographs of the body, should remain classified for 70 years.[3] In October 2010, Hutton claimed that he had done so to protect Kelly's wife and daughters from the distress of further media reports about the death, saying: "My request was not a concealment of evidence because every matter of relevance had been examined or was available for examination during the public inquiry. There was no secrecy surrounding the postmortem report because it had always been available for examination and questioning by counsel representing the interested parties during the inquiry."[4] In 2009 a group of British doctors who had not had access to the evidence - including Michael Powers, a physician, barrister, and former coroner - challenged Hutton's verdict, offering their opinion based on published reports that the cause of death was untenable; they argued that the artery is small and difficult to access, and severing it would not have triggered sufficient blood loss to cause death.[3] This opinion was challenged by several forensic pathologists who also had not had access to the evidence, who told The Guardian that the combination of Kelly's heart disease and the overdose would have meant a smaller loss of blood could have killed him than would be needed to kill a healthier person.[1] In August 2010 the former leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard, called for a full inquest,[1] andDominic Grieve, the Attorney General for England and Wales, confirmed that he was considering re-opening it.[5] In October 2010, the postmortem—including the pathologist's 14-page report and the six-page toxicology report—was made public, re-iterating the conclusion of the Hutton report.[4] Powers maintains that questions remain about the amount of blood found at the scene and the number of pills taken. Contents [hide] 1 Biography 2 WMD dossier 2.1 Contact with Andrew Gilligan 2.2 Appearance before House of Commons committees 3 Death 4 Hutton Inquiry 4.1 Fatality of ulnar artery cuts 4.2 Doubts about the suicide verdict, and alternative theories for Kelly's death 4.3 Publication of Postmortem Report 5 In popular culture 6 See also 7 Notes 8 Further reading Biography[edit]Kelly was born in Rhondda, Wales. He graduated from the University of Leeds with a BSc and subsequently obtained an MSc at the University of Birmingham. In 1971, he received his doctorate in microbiology from Linacre College, Oxford for thesis titled The replication of some iridescent viruses in cell cultures. In 1984, he joined the civil service working at what is now Dstl Porton Down as head of the Defence Microbiology Division. He moved from there to work as an ad hoc advisor to the MoD and the Foreign Office. In 1989, Kelly was involved in investigations into the Soviet violations of the 1972 Biological Weapons Convention and was a key member of the inspection team visiting the former USSR on several occasions between 1991 and 1994. His experience with biological weapons at Porton Down led to his selection as a United Nations weapons inspector in Iraq following the end of the Gulf War. Kelly's work as a member of the UNSCOM team led him to visit Iraq thirty-seven times, and his success in uncovering Iraq's biological weapons programme led to Rolf Ekéus nominating him for the Nobel Peace Prize.[6] He was made a Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George in 1996. Although he was never a member of the intelligence services, the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) regularly sought out his opinion on Iraq and other issues. David Kelly became a member of the Bahá'í Faith around 1999. He was introduced to this faith by Mai Pederson, a US military linguist and intelligence operative.[7][8] WMD dossier[edit]Kelly's career specialisation led to confusion about his actual job as he was frequently seconded to other departments. His job description included liaising with the media, and he regularly acted as a confidential source, although rarely going on the record or appearing on-camera. In 2002, he was working for the Defence Intelligence Staff at the time of the compilation of a dossier by the Joint Intelligence Committee on the weapons of mass destruction possessed by Iraq. The government had commissioned the dossier as an element of the preparation for what later became the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Although he was not responsible for writing any part of the dossier, Kelly's experience of weapons inspections led to him being asked to proofread sections of the draft dossier on the history of inspections. Kelly was unhappy with some of the claims in the draft, particularly a claim originating from August 2002 that Iraq was capable of firing battlefield biological and chemical weapons within 45 minutes of an order to use them (known as "the 45-minute claim"). Kelly's colleagues queried the inclusion of the claim, but their superiors were satisfied when they took it up with MI6 through the Joint Intelligence Committee. Kelly believed it was most likely that Iraq had retained some biological weapons after the end of inspections.[9] After the end of the ground war, he was invited to join the inspection team attempting to find any trace of weapons of mass destruction programmes and was apparently enthusiastic about resuming his work there. He made two attempted trips to Iraq. The first was on 19 May 2003 when he was prevented from entering Iraq from Kuwait because he did not have the proper documentation. The second trip was from 5 June 2003 to 11 June 2003 when Kelly went to view and photograph two alleged mobile weapons laboratories as a part of a third inspection team. Kelly was unhappy with the description of the trailers and spoke off the record to The Observer, which, on 15 June 2003, quoted "a British scientist and biological weapons expert, who has examined the trailers in Iraq." The expert said: They are not mobile germ warfare laboratories. You could not use them for making biological weapons. They do not even look like them. They are exactly what the Iraqis said they were – facilities for the production of hydrogen gas to fill balloons.[10]It was confirmed in the Hutton Inquiry that Kelly was the source of this quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Just when I though he couldn't be more of a twat this picture appears on my Facebook timeline... Dead party wearing the robes of a dead team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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