SANTAN Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, MixuFruit said: The whole growing old drifting right thing only works if you're not making the pension age a year older every couple of years, and landlords mean houses are unaffordable for many. You can't expect people to adopt conservative views if they have nothing to conserve. Hence the pivot to straight up racism that underpinned brexit etc. Nothing to conserve as in owning a house? All you need to do is tell gullible people they won't have any money and that prompts such responses, you don't need to use high brow arguments and low brow people. I fully expect people that are younger now that support Indy to veer away the older they get and the more they selfishly worry about their own household and finances. I could be wrong however it's no certainty whatsoever and it's birthday caird pish to suddenly expect the demographics to hold true as said people grow up. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/majority-of-scottish-born-voters-said-yes-z7v2mmhc8nt Afraid not champ. Though tbf I am quoting that bastion of Scottish independence the Times of London I told you I don't have much time to be trawling through your links, people that lived and worked in Scotland at the time of the referendum = Scottish. Scottish people chose to remain in the UK. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said: You mean my country? I wonder if people who aren't British nationalists refer to entire countries as bubbles? You're the clowns that just made this shitty little island a bubble. No. I mean the "I dont care about down south so I dont understand anything about it" which you happily admitted before. I'm not a British nationalist at all where as it is evident you're a Scottish Nationalist xenophobe so fling words around you don't understand all you want. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Stormzy said: I told you I don't have much time to be trawling through your links, people that lived and worked in Scotland at the time of the referendum = Scottish. Scottish people chose to remain in the UK. I think you'll find its you that doesn't understand the meaning of words, as you demonstrate here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnoustie Young Guvnor Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stormzy said: No. I mean the "I dont care about down south so I dont understand anything about it" which you happily admitted before. I'm not a British nationalist at all where as it is evident you're a Scottish Nationalist xenophobe so fling words around you don't understand all you want. You'll need to show where I said I don't understand it. I said I don't care and am not interested in the internal politics of a foreign country as its not my business. You're a raging British nationalist mate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: Some will, of course, it's just whether this is at a similar rate to their parents, when a significant portion if them can't afford to live in the towns they grew up in. Oh yeah for sure. It's not a certainty either way, quite how this lead to a meltdown is beneath and beyond me. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, MixuFruit said: The whole growing old drifting right thing only works if you're not making the pension age a year older every couple of years, and landlords mean houses are unaffordable for many. You can't expect people to adopt conservative views if they have nothing to conserve. Hence the pivot to straight up racism that underpinned brexit etc. You have to wonder what the grand bargain ala Right to Buy is going to be this time. Maybe it'll just be Children of Men and securing the borders from climate collapse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 The constitution isn't a binary left/right issue, so the drift from left to right with regards to age won't affect the issue of independence as much. 'Big N' nationalists aren't going to go from waving saltires to waving UJs when they hit 50. Imo of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, NotThePars said: You have to wonder what the grand bargain ala Right to Buy is going to be this time. Maybe it'll just be Children of Men and securing the borders from climate collapse. Aye, this and never ending culture wars. Machine gun nests on the beaches to stop the hordes in their dinghys. Labour abstaining or asking for the bests to be means tested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Stormzy said: I told you I don't have much time to be trawling through your links, people that lived and worked in Scotland at the time of the referendum = Scottish. Scottish people chose to remain in the UK. Because they were told that this would keep them in the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) Independence isn't an inherently left / right issue. In some ways, it is an inherently conservative / progressive issue though. Although there's a huge range of factors that affect how people vote, let's boil it down to heart vs head. Heart unionists are far more likely to be older and/or conservative. Heart nationalists are far more likely to be younger and/or progressive. Younger nationalists now may well become more economically conservative as they accumulate more wealth (I'm doing OK so let's not change anything) but the other side of it, how people feel about the union, I just can't see that significant drift to conservatism from younger progressive nationalists. The utterly entrenched unionism from older people is in large part down to having a greater sense of Britishness than younger generations have. Even if they didn't live through the war and empire, their parents did and that still has a significant impact on their views in a way it just doesn't for younger people. They're far more likely to feel positively towards British institutions like the monarchy, the BBC, etc. They've spent the majority of their lives with no separate Scottish political system or parliament and they have a much more negative view of it than younger people do. I don't think all of this is because of their age, I think it's because of the era they grew up in. I don't know what the demographics of independence were like 20,30,40 years ago but I'm fairly certain we'll never have seen anywhere near such strong support for independence amongst any age groups as we do amongst the young now. We know people tend to start left and drift right with age because we can track data over decades. We just can't do that with independence and so I think it's a fairly major error to assume we'll just see the same pattern in this case. Ultimately, it's not possible to give definitive answers yet though. Aside from the partisan stuff, this is a really interesting question to me. Time will tell once enough codgers have shuffled off I suppose. Edited January 2, 2021 by Gordon EF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 48 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Because they were told that this would keep them in the EU. Which it did when the alternative would have been an immediate exit. Everyone knew the Brexit issue was coming up next. They didn't we would indefinitely remain in the EU, either way did you believe that at the time and did that change how you voted? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Stormzy said: Which it did when the alternative would have been an immediate exit. Everyone knew the Brexit issue was coming up next. They didn't we would indefinitely remain in the EU, either way did you believe that at the time and did that change how you voted? Sure everyone knew Brexit was coming up next, but no one believed Leave would win. Even Farage didn't believe that. No, it didn't change my vote which was always going to be Yes, but I do believe many thought we could end up cut adrift both from the union and from the EU, had Yes succeeded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magic sign Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Which it did when the alternative would have been an immediate exit. Everyone knew the Brexit issue was coming up next. They didn't we would indefinitely remain in the EU, either way did you believe that at the time and did that change how you voted? Surely it wouldn't have been an immediate exit though. If the Brexit referendum in 2016 meant leaving the EU in 2020, why would a Yes vote in 2014 have resulted in an immediate exit? We can't know when Scotland would have negotiated to leave the UK had the result been different in 2014. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Stormzy said: Everyone knew the Brexit issue was coming up next. No they didn't, it had been trundling along in the Tory party for years without anything happening, and we were assured that staying in the UK was the only way to be in the EU. That's why EU born citizens mostly chose No, along with others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: No they didn't, it had been trundling along in the Tory party for years without anything happening, and we were assured that staying in the UK was the only way to be in the EU. That's why EU born citizens mostly chose No, along with others. Well I did and I don't like to patronise others, UKIP and the local elections made it fairly obvious this was something taking votes from Labour and the Conservatives. Interesting that nobody admits to being duped by this one yet it's often posted as a decisive factor. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 42 minutes ago, Stormzy said: Well I did and I don't like to patronise others, UKIP and the local elections made it fairly obvious this was something taking votes from Labour and the Conservatives. Interesting that nobody admits to being duped by this one yet it's often posted as a decisive factor. Also interesting that quite significant numbers are now beginning to believe they were duped by the promises associated with Brexit. I'm quite sure these will snowball in the weeks and months ahead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Send him down. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 In the eyes of the nationalists, is it the EU or the Catalans that are the bad guys here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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