SodjesSixteenIncher Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/16/scottish-independence-queen-intervene-yes-vote-fears What a superb democracy we live in Part of me feels compelled to object to the British state putting together wee PR stunts to influence a vote. But if people in Scotland are such servile tragedies that they actually listen to this old scrounging cow, we can have no complaints really. When Independence happens, let's have a Republic please. Something a bit more grown up next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Not surprised it's taken from the Guardian, a complete non story and just another republican whinge of a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Here's a story for you. It's called "The union is f**ked". Yeah, I'm afraid that schtick is about 2 years out of date. Happily we Scottish voters got the opportunity to decide that in September. How did we vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Yeah, I'm afraid that schtick is about 2 years out of date. Happily we Scottish voters got the opportunity to decide that in September. How did we vote? It didn't happen mate, the separatists have now managed to block that out the memory, a surge in membership of the SNP has given them enough to suck on to get them through their bitter grieving, to the point where they believe another referendum is just around the corner. Let em f*cking get on with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 ^^^^^^^^^^ Seething with anger that the SNP are hitting record highs in membership and independence just won't go away! Things are just not going to plan for the Unionsists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 ^^^^^^^^^^ Seething with anger that the SNP are hitting record highs in membership and independence just won't go away! Things are just not going to plan for the Unionsists No seething here mate, joining the SNP gave the Yes vote ( people just like Confidemus) something to cling on to after a decisive defeat. This will undoubtedly convert into a number of gains for the nationalists at the GE next May, but another drawn out referendum aint going to happen anytime soon. The Union is safe for the time being thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 What happens if the SNP gets something like 45% in the general election and wipes Labour off the electoral map in Scotland and holds the balance of power at Westminster? Despite the polling numbers I suspect that's still a long shot, but the more important point is that this debate is going to drag on and on because the No side failed to get the job done by being well under 60% in the referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 What happens if the SNP gets something like 45% in the general election and wipes Labour off the electoral map in Scotland and holds the balance of power at Westminster? Despite the polling numbers I suspect that's still a long shot, but the more important point is that this debate is going to drag on and on because the No side failed to get the job done by being well under 60% in the referendum. I would say the issue for the Westminster No parties is that the chosen strategy - of bombarding that undecided 20% with relentless negativity - was successful in winning them the referendum but ultimately damaging to their electoral ambitions in Scotland in that the same strategy had the effect of hardening the opposition to them, for every two people who were put in the No camp by tales of financial collapse or punitive retribution from England, another walked away into the Yes camp with disgust and disillusionment at the establishment. It feels at the moment, and of course it could all still change like those pesky 'flag bearers' for a lost cause have been hardened against Westminster, and with only the SNP as a large scale electoral force to rally behind - at least as far as May is concerned - the former yes camp looks like a single electoral block in comparison to the Labour/Tory/Liberal factions on the other side. The No side did a lot more to split the electorate than Yes did. The end result is that instead of taking the sting out of Yes by building a positive, future faicng case for the union, they got over the line largely by monstering the ambitions of the other side, thus weakening their longer term electoral ambitions up here. For the Tories, that doesn't really matter, for Labour it could be more of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 15 seats would be massive for the SNP, not 50. Talk of Labour being wiped off the map in Scotland, is the kind of hyperbole only produced months out from a general election where no one really knows what the result will be. 15 would still be enough to hold the balance of power, mind. It depends who the balance is being held with. Labour, if they are the biggest party, have such a visceral hatred of the SNP (and it is mutual) that any kind of compromise will be difficult to reach, especially if Salmond wins in Gordon and is given a licence to troll. In Scotland, the Liberals will be wiped out bar Orkney / Shetland, the Tories will continue to flatline and UKIP just aren't a factor. Wild proclamations of a pro-Yes "Rainbow Alliance" seem wide of the mark, largely as there is nothing in it for the SNP in a Westminster context. Labour will have their wings severly clipped and there may even be a Portillo moment for the divisive Skeletaur in his own backyard. But Labour will still be the biggest party, even if their wings are clipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 No seething here mate, joining the SNP gave the Yes vote ( people just like Confidemus) something to cling on to after a decisive defeat. This will undoubtedly convert into a number of gains for the nationalists at the GE next May, but another drawn out referendum aint going to happen anytime soon. The Union is safe for the time being thanks. Must admit you came across as seething in your previous post - apologies if you weren't. The GE next May won't determine if there will be an Indyref2. That will happen in the 2016 Holyrood election - something so far that hasn't been ruled out by the SNP. If the SNP have big gains in the 2015 GE to the point of getting substantially more powers for Holyrood then the likelihood of having an Indyref2 in the 2016 parly reduce. I would like two red line issues before the SNP start supporting any future Westminster government. 1. No Trident renewal 2. Transfer of powers to Holyrood to hold legally binding referenda on independence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thing is I think Trident is such a key issue to the WM parties that it would be a real breaker in negotiations. I think Labour and the Tories would probably rather work together than work with the SNP and be forced to give up Trident. I do agree that Holyrood should get the power to hold legally binding independence referenda independently of WM, but I can't see either of the WM parties conceding that either. In the end even of the SNP win the vast majority of the Scottish seats I can't see them doing anything other than going into opposition and maybe agreeing to vote with Labour on occasion to keep a minority government afloat but even that seems a long shot. If they hold out enough they could effectively force a Labour/Tory coalition which would allow Salmond to be the official leader of her majesty's loyal opposition and make independence absolutely inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 A sizeable (enough)Tory majority to be gained next May, with a vastly reduced support for Labour in Scotland. With the English demanding for English votes on English matters only (which they'll surely push through), as mentioned on a previous thread, it's almost as if this was Cameron's plan all along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Tory and Labour working together or a Tory majority on the grounds of offering EVEL will leave the Union fucked. That's why we're hearing quotes about the Unionist parties raging about "being forced into a corner" and what not, there's no settlement available that works here. It won't be 2016 or anything daft like that but Independence (or at least a popular demand for it in Scotland) is inevitable now. And aye RedRob it was a "republican" whinge because I'm not a servile moron who likes the idea of some power inherited scroungers "ruling over us". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I've said before and I'll say it again, that the sooner we copy the Russians and French the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Tory and Labour working together or a Tory majority on the grounds of offering EVEL will leave the Union fucked. That's why we're hearing quotes about the Unionist parties raging about "being forced into a corner" and what not, there's no settlement available that works here. It won't be 2016 or anything daft like that but Independence (or at least a popular demand for it in Scotland) is inevitable now. And aye RedRob it was a "republican" whinge because I'm not a servile moron who likes the idea of some power inherited scroungers "ruling over us". Servile Moron? Aye if you say so, I'm not the one sat with Salmond's cock drooling in his mouth? When was the last time the Monarch truly 'ruled over us' ya throbber ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's too bad there wasn't anything like this during our referendum. The last time around in Quebec a Montreal DJ called up Buckingham Palace pretending to be the Canadian PM, Jean Chretien, with a way over the top French-Canadian accent and the result was this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinkinFighter Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Servile Moron? Aye if you say so, I'm not the one sat with Salmond's cock drooling in his mouth? When was the last time the Monarch truly 'ruled over us' ya throbber ?They're ruling over us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killie Zenit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Servile Moron? Aye if you say so, I'm not the one sat with Salmond's cock drooling in his mouth? When was the last time the Monarch truly 'ruled over us' ya throbber ? Might be a question better directed at your own support for this toe-curler of a banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Might be a question better directed at your own support for this toe-curler of a banner. They may reign as a constitutional monarchy KZ but they don't 'rule' over us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddly optomistic Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Don't think it's a surprise that she was pro union and would be amazed if she swayed anyone's opinion but as she is not supposed to wade into political debates I think she should refrain from saying anything. I think what annoys people is the way it was stage managed and the fact they think we're all too dense to realise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.