pandarilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 What would be wrong with talking to both Cameron and Miliband - after the result is declared - just to see what BOTH might be prepared to offer Scotland? You're making the election about what Sturgeon can get. That will play a part but she's also not silly enough to deal with the devil. The Tories are toxic in Scotland for a very real reason. Scottish Labour have just been shitebags that sided with the Tories last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Lol, I'd love to see the SNP's crash after they got involved with the Tories. As Nicola was reminded last night the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour government in 1979. Can you remember what that led to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 As Nicola was reminded last night the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour government in 1979. Can you remember what that led to? That was very much a different SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 As Nicola was reminded last night the SNP voted with the Tories to bring down the Labour government in 1979. Can you remember what that led to? I do. But as I'm reminded by many on here the SNP of then is a very different party to what it is now. If Sturgeon was to ever side with the Tories then rightly or wrongly the Scottish people would never forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 You're making the election about what Sturgeon can get. That will play a part but she's also not silly enough to deal with the devil. The Tories are toxic in Scotland for a very real reason. Scottish Labour have just been shitebags that sided with the Tories last year. I agree. I personally suffered through the miners strike. But please try and get your head around how the Tories came to win the election of 1979. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 What would be wrong with talking to both Cameron and Miliband - after the result is declared - just to see what BOTH might be prepared to offer Scotland? The SNP have set out their position and are asking the people of Scotland to vote on that position. IMO it is largely because of that position that they are massively ahead in the polls. Are you suggesting: A) they should abandon that position that is highly popular and, IMO, completely principled; or B) get elected on a pledge then abandon that pledge as soon as the election is over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That was very much a different SNP. It was still a party who's broad aim was independence for Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 The SNP have set out their position and are asking the people of Scotland to vote on that position. IMO it is largely because of that position that they are massively ahead in the polls. Are you suggesting: A) they should abandon that position that is highly popular and, IMO, completely principled; or B) get elected on a pledge then abandon that pledge as soon as the election is over? Sorry, I don't accept the continual ranting about locking the tories out is why they are "massively ahead in polls". I still support the SNP for many, and various reasons - but that childlike stance over the tories isn't part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It was still a party who's broad aim was independence for Scotland. What's your point? The Tories are hated in Scotland and as a result the SNP have (rightly in my view) stated that they will not in any way enter into negotiations with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 It was still a party who's broad aim was independence for Scotland. They were then known as the tartan Tories for good reason. Nowadays their policies are more left wing than Labour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That the SNP's primary goal is independence is not some straw man which can be used to imply that the SNP will literally shoot people's dogs in the street if it gets them closer to that goal. The SNP will have its independence when the Scottish electorate as a whole trusts them to lead us to prosperity. If that means a few years of demonstrating that they can not only govern Scotland well but also push the Labour Party back from the cliff edge it's been trying to jump from for the last 12 years or so then that's a win for literally everybody. For all this 1979 chat, the fucking Labour Party of 1979 would treat its current incarnation with complete distain, if not violent hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 What's your point? The Tories are hated in Scotland and as a result the SNP have (rightly in my view) stated that they will not in any way enter into negotiations with them. So you would be quite happy to see labour wiped out in Scotland, but yet see a labour government installed in Westminster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That the SNP's primary goal is independence is not some straw man which can be used to imply that the SNP will literally shoot people's dogs in the street if it gets them closer to that goal. The SNP will have its independence when the Scottish electorate as a whole trusts them to lead us to prosperity. If that means a few years of demonstrating that they can not only govern Scotland well but also push the Labour Party back from the cliff edge it's been trying to jump from for the last 12 years or so then that's a win for literally everybody. For all this 1979 chat, the fucking Labour Party of 1979 would treat its current incarnation with complete distain, if not violent hatred. What you have to accept is this is not 1979. The world has moved on. The Labour Party has changed for the better imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 So you would be quite happy to see labour wiped out in Scotland, but yet see a labour government installed in Westminster? Tbf that is a very good point. All the SNP voters on here constantly deride Labour and Ed Milliband yet want to share power with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 So you would be quite happy to see labour wiped out in Scotland, but yet see a labour government installed in Westminster? Given that the SNP would be calling the shots and what's ultimately on offer, it would have to do for now since we're not an independent nation - yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 In terms of vox populi Nicola is the only game in town. She is without doubt playing a blinder. She now needs to grow up and ditch the 'anyone but the Tories' bollocks. She knows what she's doing saying that until those ballot boxes shut: don't give the Vermin an inch to sow any doubts now that the proles have finally come to their senses. Even those Tories tactically voting SNP will do so partly in the hope that the Westminster party will be restrained: true Tories are a breed apart - unlike other parties, their members see nothing treacherous in lending support to ginger groups (whether they be intentional or otherwise) if they feel the leadership has gone astray & needs checked. A large part of this is down to the way the party is run as a confederation, rather than the top down management style most others go for. The Scottish Party, the BUF, National Fellowship, The League of Empire Loyalists, the Monday Club, the Freedom Group, the NF... they've all come and gone as being the recipients of tacit (and sometimes not so tacit) aid from Tory ranks. (and of course UKIP - although they're starting to regret that one now!) They were then known as the tartan Tories for good reason. Nowadays their policies are more left wing than Labour They were known as Tartan Tories because Labour voters are the most moronic pond life ever shat into civilisation & are easily persuaded that something is true if you say it with alliteration. It's the reason why the Daily Broken Record and the Sun use it in their headlines all the time. The SNP was largely formed out of the National Party of Scotland, which had such well known Tory types as ex-Communist Hugh McDiarmid and ex-ILP Roland Muirhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 The long form Waffen beat-down is a glorious thing to behold. Pity I'm out of greenies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirez Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Tbf that is a very good point. All the SNP voters on here constantly deride Labour and Ed Milliband yet want to share power with him Well seeing as SNP voters would want to see as many SNP MP's elected as possible then that is understandable. Thanks to the No voters we are stuck in the UK electoral system...for now. So its probably true most people think that Miliband is the lesser of two evils than Cameron But thanks to the Labour parties deplorable actions during the referendum there is not a hope in hell that they will regain their trust. Scottish Labour are finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Sorry, I don't accept the continual ranting about locking the tories out is why they are "massively ahead in polls". I still support the SNP for many, and various reasons - but that childlike stance over the tories isn't part of it. Yeah, what about answering my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 She knows what she's doing saying that until those ballot boxes shut: don't give the Vermin an inch to sow any doubts now that the proles have finally come to their senses. Even those Tories tactically voting SNP will do so partly in the hope that the Westminster party will be restrained: true Tories are a breed apart - unlike other parties, their members see nothing treacherous in lending support to ginger groups (whether they be intentional or otherwise) if they feel the leadership has gone astray & needs checked. A large part of this is down to the way the party is run as a confederation, rather than the top down management style most others go for. The Scottish Party, the BUF, National Fellowship, The League of Empire Loyalists, the Monday Club, the Freedom Group, the NF... they've all come and gone as being the recipients of tacit (and sometimes not so tacit) aid from Tory ranks. (and of course UKIP - although they're starting to regret that one now!) They were known as Tartan Tories because Labour voters are the most moronic pond life ever shat into civilisation & are easily persuaded that something is true if you say it with alliteration. It's the reason why the Daily Broken Record and the Sun use it in their headlines all the time. The SNP was largely formed out of the National Party of Scotland, which had such well known Tory types as ex-Communist Hugh McDiarmid and ex-ILP Roland Muirhead. Well you must regard the vast majority of your fellow countrymen as "the most moronic pond life ever shat into civilisation" as the majority voted labour until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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