EU Referendum

[ScotSquid]

All the problems are caused by the member states themselves

Well, not really. That's like saying the problems in the UK are caused by us.

The EU is an absolutely vile organisation. Look at the way they treated Greece or Italy. Look at the multiple referendums when the people don't vote 'the right way'. Look at the endemic financial corruption and the way any journalist who tries to challenge this is treated.

I love the idea of the EU and the concept of a pan European organisation. And much good has come out if it in terms of freedom of movement particularly.

But it is a sham of democracy. I don't quite get the posters who are anti-UK because of the HoL and rabid cheerleaders of the EU in its current guise. That's just bizarre.

[Granny Danger]

There's certainly not sufficient criticism of the EU; I'm struggling to think of the last time I heard an SNP spokesperson offering any constructive criticism of the institution.

Its sad that the only people who seem to be intent on reforming it are right-wing scumbags whose only interest is attacking social policy and protecting British business interests.

[Antlion]

Well, not really. That's like saying the problems in the UK are caused by us.

Many of them are, at least in part. What have we done to reform it? What serious moves have we made? There is huge apathy throughout the UK which has allowed it to continue as it has and does.

The EU is an absolutely vile organisation. Look at the way they treated Greece or Italy. Look at the multiple referendums when the people don't vote 'the right way'. Look at the endemic financial corruption and the way any journalist who tries to challenge this is treated.

Like the 1979 devolution referendum? The UK didn't like the "Yes" result and so it was ignored. I'd say the appalling conduct of the UK re: that referendum is light years ahead of the EU's conduct with Ireland (which is what I assume you're alluding to). After the EU's offer was rejected in a referendum by the Irish, renogotiation took place, and a revised offer was put to the people, which was accepted. Not quite of the magnitude of the UK's treatment of the Scottish electorate - and you'll note that referenda were the choice of the Irish; in Scotland, we have to beg UK permission even to have them. As to endemic financial corruption, the vile organisation that is the UK has been notorious for that for centuries. And look at the way it treated Scotland when oil was discovered - its value was actively suppressed to protect the political union. "Vile", right?

I love the idea of the EU and the concept of a pan European organisation. And much good has come out if it in terms of freedom of movement particularly.

But it is a sham of democracy. I don't quite get the posters who are anti-UK because of the HoL and rabid cheerleaders of the EU in its current guise. That's just bizarre.

Who "is anti-UK because of the HoL"? That disgusting institution is just one of many reasons that the UK is a sham of democracy. And who is a particularly "rabid cheerleader" of the EU? It has various problems and is in need of reform, but the UK is simply the more problematic and constricting union, by the very nature of what it does to member states.

[welshbairn]

But it is a sham of democracy. I don't quite get the posters who are anti-UK because of the HoL and rabid cheerleaders of the EU in its current guise. That's just bizarre.

If it's a sham of a democracy it's because the big powers like the UK have fought tooth and nail to keep directly elected MEP's and the European Parliament toothless.

[Glenconner]

Cometh the hour, cometh the man

If BritNat politics rings your bell then it's British Bulldog time.

A whole referendum just for you.

"God bless you my dear gov"

[RedRob72]

Massive gamble by Cameron to claim he would gain concessions without securing them first. Just strengthens the argument for those who want to leave the EU or was that his intention all along!?

[Ivo den Bieman]

It's all a big charade.

Cameron by Feb will be able to claim some non-existent "concessions". The EU leaders will play along as they would like the UK to stay, and give Cameron enough wriggle-room to campaign for a Yes vote whilst they look on and nod sagely.

The growing row in the Tory party as to whether cabinet ministers will be allowed a free vote /freedom to campaign as they wish in the referendum is more interesting IMO. Cameron making a bit of an arse of it at present.

[Antlion]

The impression Cameron is giving, deliberately or otherwise, is that he doesn't much care whether the UK is inside or outside the EU.

Perhaps he thinks a last minute love bombing will get people to vote to stay in. All he has to do is tell us it will break his heart if he can no longer call himself a European citizen.

[ICTChris]

Here are the latest polls for the EU referendum

Interesting that ComRes polled even online but with a 20% lead for Remain via phones.

Could be that Leavers are more represented online or could it be a new manifestation of the shy-Tory syndrome we've seen in the past? People might want to leave the EU but not want to be thought of as being with Farage?

I think the former is more likely. If you asked me to call it, I'd say that Remain will win. I think it'll be wider than the independence referendum.

[RedRob72]

Here are the latest polls for the EU referendum

Interesting that ComRes polled even online but with a 20% lead for Remain via phones.

Could be that Leavers are more represented online or could it be a new manifestation of the shy-Tory syndrome we've seen in the past? People might want to leave the EU but not want to be thought of as being with Farage?

I think the former is more likely. If you asked me to call it, I'd say that Remain will win. I think it'll be wider than the independence referendum.

Very interesting, and not reflective of what many in the papers seem to think. Also believe we will vote to remain but with the same sort of margin as the Ref.

[Glenconner]

Very interesting, and not reflective of what many in the papers seem to think. Also believe we will vote to remain but with the same sort of margin as the Ref.

With a 50% voter turnout.

Half the UK voting public couldn't give a monkeys.

[Alan Stubbs]

The leave crowd seem to be the ones over represented in comments sections, Twitter etc. Then again folk being shy about siding with Farage works as a theory as well.

The best thing the Remain side can do is get some inoffensive no marks to face a meh campaign. You can guarantee the Leave side will be a self-defeating clusterfuck.