jmothecat Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Straight talking honest politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Straight talking honest politics. ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1452463054.887963.jpg Imagine going to the effort of hacking into Jeremy Corbyn's account and then just sending those tweets. The equivalent of running from the halfway line, rounding the goalkeeper and then blazing the ball over an open goal. What a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Imagine going to the effort of hacking into Jeremy Corbyn's account and then just sending those tweets. The equivalent of running from the halfway line, rounding the goalkeeper and then blazing the ball over an open goal. What a waste. I like that someone hacked his account, to post a political message in line with Corbyn's own politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Was there ever one image of NO campaigners taken which wasn't utterly cringeworthy? ASDAs shite btw. Not a patch on Aldi. It was the same with Murphy pre general election... doing talks at 6 in morning with naebody around except a small hired crowd.... media printing as if he was the pied piper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Although both Labour and the conservatives are trying to pass themselves off as the centre ground party. The British centre ground is hard right and they know it's hard right. Because of all of the hard right propaganda that they have dished out over the years, people believe it to be the centre ground. People that remain close to the true centre ground are accused of being far left, anti western, terrorist sympathising Trotskys. The ruling class have played a blinder and have us all by the short and curly's. If the centre ground was hard right then the Tories wouldn't have elected David Cameron as leader, they would have chosen David Davis. A large chunk of Tories on the hard right of their party acknowledge that their brand of politics is unlikely to command enough support in the country to win a general election. As a result, they (perhaps reluctantly) accept the need for a leader with broader appeal to swing voters. It appears contradictory on first reading, but it could be argued that the current centre ground is supportive of both nationalising the railways and freezing immigration, to name two examples. One policy traditionally associated with the left-wing of the Labour Party and the other with the right-wing of the Conservative Party, but now supported simultaneously by many. I don't think the centre ground is mythical, but I don't think it's stationary either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 ...on the last few posts, I don't think Scottish Labour being Unionists is their biggest problem. They've actually given off a vibe of not wanting Scotland to succeed at all, which is a much bigger problem. Most of the chat about oil since the referendum appears more like bragging than useful debate. This does not go down well when people are losing their jobs. The Lib Dems are even worse for this. The SNP have successfully presented themselves as the Party (and as an actual Party, which helps) which cares about Scotland. The others have played into their hands. This. Only folk who voted yes in the referendum would think labours problem is that they don't support independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Sweeping statements and generalisations are the backbone of P&B.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 As for #piegate - the hackers missed a trick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 The centre isn't hard right. That's clear when you hear Tory party conference speeches the budget where they fluff everything up to try and appeal to the centre. Look at the reality then read the small print and the Tory leadership are further to the right than they try to portray. A lot of their MPs are quite a bit further to the right than that. Then you have UKIP and the far right. If you're labelling the centre as hard right, then you aren't leaving much room to explain the huge range from the centre to where you actually do get the extreme right wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 It was the same with Murphy pre general election... doing talks at 6 in morning with naebody around except a small hired crowd.... media printing as if he was the pied piper. Of the many disgusting failures of the MSM in Scotland during the election, the coverage of Murphy's "campaigning" was the worst. It was collusion with a scam, no more no less. The centre isn't hard right. That's clear when you hear Tory party conference speeches the budget where they fluff everything up to try and appeal to the centre. Look at the reality then read the small print and the Tory leadership are further to the right than they try to portray. A lot of their MPs are quite a bit further to the right than that. Then you have UKIP and the far right. If you're labelling the centre as hard right, then you aren't leaving much room to explain the huge range from the centre to where you actually do get the extreme right wing. The problem with terms like 'hard right' is how do you define them. I think the proposed welfare cuts, even allowing for the withdrawl of cuts to the Tax Credits this time around, is a very hard right position; particularly on top of the previous cuts effecting the poor. Yet only a very small proportion of Tory MPs are against these cuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Strange but true. I spoke to two Labour activists recently, one from Paisley and another from Glasgow North East. They didn't believe Labour had lost until the boxes were opened at the count. They also said.....voters told them lies on the doorsteps!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 It was the same with Murphy pre general election... doing talks at 6 in morning with naebody around except a small hired crowd.... media printing as if he was the pied piper. The thing about the whole Murphy soap box tour was where the eff was the Labour soap boxbox in the 1980s when Thatcher was putting the boot in. Plus in the end it backfired and obviously a sizeable section of Labour No voters voted SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Strange but true. I spoke to two Labour activists recently, one from Paisley and another from Glasgow North East. They didn't believe Labour had lost until the boxes were opened at the count. They also said.....voters told them lies on the doorsteps!!! I know of one who campaigned in Glasgow East. She said that Labour were fucked from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Another Labour shadow cabinet member is away - McKinnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 How many Labour big hitters have resigned now? Oh yeah, none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I know of one who campaigned in Glasgow East. She said that Labour were fucked from the start. Yup. My mate campaigned in East end and had the glorious pleasure of attending the Glasgow count. He sent me a text about 15 min after boxes from all constituencies had been open (which I shared with P+B) stating that they were all fuked! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Labour have big hitters? They're will be a handful of names that will be publically recognisable. I'm not sure if Catherine McKinnell's mum knows who she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Labour appears to be in the worst possible position at the moment: no foreseeable chance of winning an election, combined with no immediate prospect of a change of leadership. Up until a month or so ago, I was fairly certain that Corbyn wouldn't manage to retain his position until May 2020. At one time or another it would be too much, and he would either be forced to resign or the PLP would muster a sufficient rebellion. If he can survive the projected results in May at Holyrood and elsewhere, and especially if Labour win City Hall, then I think he will probably lead Labour into the next GE. In hindsight, maybe some bigger names - like Yvette Cooper and Chuka Umunna - should have accepted Shadow Cabinet jobs and then, at an appropriate date, a mass resignation of 'big hitters' would have been possible. It might not have removed Corbyn, but it would have undermined him much more effectively than a scattered exit of some more obscure shadow ministers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Labour appears to be in the worst possible position at the moment: no foreseeable chance of winning an election, combined with no immediate prospect of a change of leadership. Up until a month or so ago, I was fairly certain that Corbyn wouldn't manage to retain his position until May 2020. I be 50\50 that he wil be gone by September. Holyrood in May and there is going to be zero for Labour in that. SNP are the best party machine in the country right now and riding high. Khan should cakewalk the London elections but there is little for Corbyn there as London is the only place Labour made ground in May 15. Kahn is a "Blairite" in many eyes so a win for him is really as much a win for moderates. Here is where the decider will be for Corbyn in 2016 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2016 Solihull, Walsall, Peterborough, Milton Keynes, Thurrock, Worcester are all up for elections in the locals. These all have or are near Labour target seats for the general election. They need to show a substantive move Con > Lab for a mid term election showing progress towards forming a government. No movement from Miliband 11 one year after 15 then the knives will be out beyond the PLP and into the unions. His team of advisers is truly despised in many parts of the party. They are seen as hopelessly out of date, few ideas for how to run something the size of a national political party and obsessed with internal machinations. Their only appeal is to their activist base, its 50% Foot, 50% Militant all over again. Corbyn is having rings ran round him inside the party and in the wider movement. He is basically a lovely old man with some nice morally ideas who turns up to marches and gives a speech at the end. He is no intellectual like Tony Benn or Michael Foot. He is no old school rabble rouser like Galloway, he seems to be terrible at politics (witness the 48 hour omnishambles reshuffle) and he is a million mile from a pragmatic deal maker like the ex union boss types in the benches. He is a fluffy kitten in a tiger cage. The PLP will vote an alternative leader of the parliamentary party at some point (either Beckett or Harman) that will signify a complete vote of no confidence. They will wait till there is a clear electoral rejection of his leadership and strike with 80% or so of the parliamentary party. He represents about 200 thousand members, they represent about 9 million voters. McDonnell and Abbott will not be able to muster the 25 votes from MPSto make the ballot and that will be that so far as marx with no sparks goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hard to believe, but ousting Corbyn would cause Labour further damage. Blair done so well as a result of poor Conservative opposition. Becoming a Blairite party again won't do them any good this time round. The only real opposition to a right wing party doing well is a left wing opposition doing well, not another right wing party. Blairism and Corbynism aren't the only two directions of travel open to the Labour Party, though. Only one candidate arguably stood on a Blairite platform for the leadership last year, and finished on 4.5%. It's possible to oppose Corbyn's leadership without wanting Labour to copy the Tories, and whilst acknowledging that you can't repeat the formula that worked in 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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