jmothecat Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 See, this is part of Labour's problem. Far too many Labour "moderates" are of the opinion that "Cameron is shite but not as shite as Corbyn". Whether you like it or not, the man is the leader of your party. It may be an idea to suck it up like a big boy and support him. I'm not entirely sure that having a membership and parliamentary party who blindly support their leader no matter what is a good thing. Even under leaders I strongly support I think dissent and disagreement is an important aspect of it. Labour are a broad church and have members who differ on a lot of issues. I don't think it's a bad thing to recognise these differences. I don't know any Labour members who would vote anyone other than Labour if there were an election tomorrow, even those like myself who are very critical of Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I'm not entirely sure that having a membership and parliamentary party who blindly support their leader no matter what is a good thing. Even under leaders I strongly support I think dissent and disagreement is an important aspect of it. Labour are a broad church and have members who differ on a lot of issues. I don't think it's a bad thing to recognise these differences. I don't know any Labour members who would vote anyone other than Labour if there were an election tomorrow, even those like myself who are very critical of Corbyn. Sigh. Who mentioned "blind support"? I knew you wouldn't accept it as an issue. I won't waste any more of my breath as it will obviously zoom about 5 miles over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 What? What relevance does that have to do with Labour MP's, councillors, party members etc who cannot wait to take a swipe at Corbyn? As I have said before, if Labour put as much collective effort into battling the Tories as they do publically berating Corbyn, you may actually get somewhere. The fact that you'll probably not even accept this as a valid criticism partially highlights why Labour are in the mess they're in. I suspect you understand the relevance of my first question, hence your decision to avoid answering it. I don't accept that as valid criticism, no. Members should be allowed to, within reason, freely and openly voice dissent without fear of facing punishment. Or is that not part of the new, straight-talking, honest politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I suspect you understand the relevance of my first question, hence your decision to avoid answering it. I don't accept that as valid criticism, no. Members should be allowed to, within reason, freely and openly voice dissent without fear of facing punishment. Or is that not part of the new, straight-talking, honest politics? It wasn't even remotely relevant. When Blair was in charge of Labour, did he have swathes of Labour centrists telling every media source that would listen how utterly shite he was? That Corbyn disobeyed the whip under Blair (as he has done all his political career - a fact to be admired I think) is neither hither nor thither in relation to the utter wankers to the Labour right. Try criticising Tories more and Corbyn less. You may just get people to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Back to PMQs, I just thought Corbyn not getting involved in things like a 'clean punch' on Cameron was part of his tactic. Cameron is ranting on week after week looking for sound bites and Corbyn isn't biting. The 'bunch of migrants' attack was awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Back to PMQs, I just thought Corbyn not getting involved in things like a 'clean punch' on Cameron was part of his tactic. Cameron is ranting on week after week looking for sound bites and Corbyn isn't biting. The 'bunch of migrants' attack was awful. I think Cameron understands that most voters aren't going to watch PMQs in full, but will maybe hear a soundbite at the start of the news. If he can deploy a sharp line on tax or national security, then that's what voters will hear and/or read. His "bunch of migrants" line was dreadful, but I fear more people will agree than disagree with his sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Make worked in construction at Port Stanley after the Falklands War. The forces and the construction crews hated the locals. He said they were a bunch of ungrateful inbreds who should have been shipped back to a sheep farm Lake District. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I thought Caroline Flint's question on Google was much sharper and more focused than any of Corbyn's. 54 Wid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 It wasn't even remotely relevant. When Blair was in charge of Labour, did he have swathes of Labour centrists telling every media source that would listen how utterly shite he was? That Corbyn disobeyed the whip under Blair (as he has done all his political career - a fact to be admired I think) is neither hither nor thither in relation to the utter wankers to the Labour right. Try criticising Tories more and Corbyn less. You may just get people to listen. No, because Blair tended to successfully command support from the PLP. Despite his multiple faults, he also possessed the advantages of regularly scoring highly in opinion polls and winning multiple elections. On the first point, Corbyn currently isn't performing strongly enough; on the second, time will tell but it's not looking too rosy. What are the issues on which you wish for dissenting MPs to start supporting Corbyn? A power-sharing arrangement for the Falklands? Unilateral nuclear disarmament, which is against current Labour Party policy? I'm sure most Labour MPs disappointed in the leadership want to get behind Corbyn, but he has to give them something to work with. It's also worth noting that the vast majority of those serving in his Shadow Cabinet didn't vote for Corbyn to be leader, so it's a nonsense to suggest that everybody in the PLP is opposing him at every turn. If they were, they wouldn't have agreed to abide by collective responsibility under his leadership. I will support Jeremy Corbyn at the ballot box. I suspect that's more than you will be able to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I will support Jeremy Corbyn at the ballot box. I suspect that's more than you will be able to say. You are correct to suspect that. I will continue to find Labour's implosion amusing as you, kind of as I expected, think there's nothing wrong in undermining Corbyn at every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal till I die Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? I highly doubt many paid up Labour members would even consider voting Tory. I'm a fairly vocal critic of Corbyn but I'll be voting Labour if he is still leader at the next election. On your second point, do you really want to be in a situation where secret ballots are no longer used? I think that would be a very concerning route to take and would undermine a very important part of democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? That's a patently ridiculous suggestion. Are you seriously opposed to secret ballots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35528108 Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham says it may be "impossible" for Labour to reach an agreed position on Trident. FTFY, Andy: Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham says it may be "impossible" for Labour to reach an agreed position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Is Corbyn keeping a low profile on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Surely they will take a decision at Party conference and that will be the official Labour Party policy. That's the way it's always been done in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Surely they will take a decision at Party conference and that will be the official Labour Party policy. That's the way it's always been done in the past. According to ST, certain Labour MPs have declared they will continue to campaign for Trident renewal even if it become official party policy to oppose it. I wonder who they owe in the arms industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 According to ST, certain Labour MPs have declared they will continue to campaign for Trident renewal even if it become official party policy to oppose it. I wonder who they owe in the arms industry. Great reason for deselection. If Labour ever wants to re-establish itself I think deselection is inevitable. If Corbyn had any guts he would publically agree. BTW I don't think they 'owe'the arms industry, it's just that they are right-wing arseholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? Do you mean voting at general or local elections? Voting will always, and should, be private, i.e. a secret ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Do you mean voting at general or local elections? Voting will always, and should, be private, i.e. a secret ballot. Unless you are Ruth Davidson, of course. She appears to be perfectly happy to use the signature checking part of the postal ballot as an opportunity to get a sneaky look at how postal voters have voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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