The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[Mr.Blue]

Is there any hope at all that this c**t has been signed as a.back up or am I clutching?

[Sortmeout]

I can’t remember when but I know a Dundee fan pulled the stats to convince others as to how bad Hamilton was and he was at the bottom of almost every measurable compared to the other keepers in this league.

[Cardle is Magic]

10 minutes ago, Mr.Blue said:

Is there any hope at all that this c**t has been signed as a.back up or am I clutching?

He’ll probably be one of your better paid players tbh.

Dundee offer daft money so even if he’s taken a wage cut, he’ll still be on a fair wedge I’d assume.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Cardle is Magic

[Rudolph Hucker]

4 hours ago, Mr.Blue said:

Speaking for yourself there I hope.

Of course, it’s just my opinion. Going by the way the number of active posters on there has plummeted over the last few years, though, it seems I’m far from the only one thinking that way. They’re not ALL bad, but there are only a few whose posts I find remotely worthwhile.  PS - yours ain’t too bad.  

[Rudolph Hucker]

35 minutes ago, virginton said:

Rather late to the party with this meltdown, given that this inevitable 'dung manager, dung players - more of the same tedious shite on the park' outcome of a play-off win was spelled out to you way back in April, and yet you insisted that relegation then would be a much worse outcome.

And yet here we are, having pointlessly delayed an unavoidable rebuild job, with the goodwill of the new regime now resting in the clownlike hands of Jack Hamilton and co.

Gonna give it a rest with the “we’d’ve been better getting’ relegated” crap? That ship sailed weeks ago, shame you weren’t on it.

It was tedious chat before, but now it’s just plain guff. Seems ridiculous to have to say this, but it’s you I’m talking to, so here we go:  WE WERE NOT RELEGATED. GET FUCKIN’ OVER IT.

 

 

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Rather late to the party with this meltdown, given that this inevitable 'dung manager, dung players - more of the same tedious shite on the park' outcome of a play-off win was spelled out to you way back in April, and yet you insisted that relegation then would be a much worse outcome.

And yet here we are, having pointlessly delayed an unavoidable rebuild job, with the goodwill of the new regime now resting in the clownlike hands of Jack Hamilton and co.

Doubt the goodwill of the new regime would be doing much better through being in League One rather than the Championship when we have the takeover overrunning by 36 days and counting, along with various minor farces around memberships and season tickets, which would still be the case if we hadn't signed the goalkeeping equivalent of Sean McGinty.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

No idea what to say in response to Hamilton signing, because I can’t actually recall seeing him play.

Think I’m going to go with @port-ton and hope that he just lost his confidence playing in front of those nasty Dundee types… and that he can get it back with a run of games.

Another, better, before Saturday please.

 

[port-ton]

I'm more than happy to not panic until he gives me a reason to, as its basically a yearly Morton fan tradition to lose our shits over the signing of a goalkeeper we perceive to be poor and he ends up perfectly serviceable.

Off the top of my head in recent years there's been

Aiden McAdams
Danny Rogers
Ryan Scully
Derek Gaston (basically every time he was first choice)
Andy Mcneil
Grant Adam
Colin Stewart

Many of them are almost legendary bombscares in Scottish football fan circles yet there wasn't anything close to a Sam Ramsbottom between them.

[Dunning1874]

You're not wrong that Stewart, Adam and McNeil were all better for us than their reputations from previous clubs suggested. However I think you're being very kind to Ryan Scully in saying that none of them were anything close to Ramsbottom, while Stewart was probably the only one with a reputation as bad as Hamilton.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

6 hours ago, port-ton said:

I'm more than happy to not panic until he gives me a reason to, as its basically a yearly Morton fan tradition to lose our shits over the signing of a goalkeeper we perceive to be poor and he ends up perfectly serviceable.

Off the top of my head in recent years there's been

Aiden McAdams
Danny Rogers
Ryan Scully
Derek Gaston (basically every time he was first choice)
Andy Mcneil
Grant Adam
Colin Stewart

Many of them are almost legendary bombscares in Scottish football fan circles yet there wasn't anything close to a Sam Ramsbottom between them.

Seeing that list, I’m much happier to take a punt on Hamilton than have Scully (who’s available) slither back.

Goes without saying that it’s preferable to taking another crazy punt on a complete unknown quantity from the seventh tier in England.

Would have been happier still with Rogers, right enough, but that might be the point at which our budget hits reality.

[Dunning1874]

Just now, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Seeing that list, I’m much happier to take a punt on Hamilton than have Scully (who’s available) slither back.

Goes without saying that it’s preferable to taking another crazy punt on a complete unknown quantity from the seventh tier in England.

Would have been happier still with Rogers, right enough, but that might be the point at which our budget hits reality.

An unknown quantity obviously brings a risk that they might turn out to be a Ramsbottom level disaster, but there's also a chance they might be good.

There is no chance of Jack Hamilton being good.

[Branch Ton]

7 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

An unknown quantity obviously brings a risk that they might turn out to be a Ramsbottom level disaster, but there's also a chance they might be good.

There is no chance of Jack Hamilton being good.

If you are going to write off someone so readily you could have the decency to do a proper strengths and weaknesses analysis and say how many times you have actually seen him play.

[Rudolph Hucker]

17 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Seeing that list, I’m much happier to take a punt on Hamilton than have Scully (who’s available) slither back.

Goes without saying that it’s preferable to taking another crazy punt on a complete unknown quantity from the seventh tier in England.

Would have been happier still with Rogers, right enough, but that might be the point at which our budget hits reality.

That last bit's the surprising thing here for me.  Hamilton must've been on decent money in the financial maelstrom that Dundee have been for years, so either Gus has really sweet-talked him, or we're pushing the boat out, or Hamilton has been very short of offers....... 

Unlike Dunning and some others I'm not prepared to write him off straight away; as port-ton's list shows several supposed 'calamity' keepers did well for us. 

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

Doubt the goodwill of the new regime would be doing much better through being in League One rather than the Championship when we have the takeover overrunning by 36 days and counting, along with various minor farces around memberships and season tickets, which would still be the case if we hadn't signed the goalkeeping equivalent of Sean McGinty.

We wouldn't have re-signed a bunch of proven failures from last season's squad (including the coaching staff), whose 'continuity' pitch in fact led to them failing to add a competent goalkeeper in the six weeks they had available to them anyway. Which is why we have Hamilton in now, four days before the season begins and after running through four previous targets in quick succession. The nick of the first team that you're decrying now was entirely within GMFC's power to change by actually clearing house and ending this full-time nonsense this summer. But as I pointed out they would foolishly treat play-off survival as a great vindication of the utter garbage produced in the spring instead and so here we are. That's before we even start on the two year deal handed out to keep the architect of these signings wedded to the club through 2023, or to secure him a pointlessly large pay-off. 

The enormous task of overhauling the club behind the scenes this summer was reason 2B why relegation then was preferable to this alternative. The bulk of Morton fans bought into the delusion that the club is capable of both changing ownership structure and building a team that isn't total dung in the second tier at the same time. It isn't. Instead, all of the compromises that were accepted in May as part of the gormless obsession with 'survival!!!!111!!!!' (in a division) are simply coming home to roost.

We'll have to wait and see the full damage that they wreak on the genuine issue of survival at stake - whether fans will fully buy into the idea of ownership, or become scunnered even before this season is over. 

Edited July 7, 2021 by vikingTON

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, Branch Ton said:

If you are going to write off someone so readily you could have the decency to do a proper strengths and weaknesses analysis and say how many times you have actually seen him play.

Strengths - none

Weaknesses - goalkeeping

Times I've watched him play - I'm not sure of an exact number but between Dundee v Morton games and televised Dundee & Hearts games it will be well in double figures. As well as full games, there were weekly highlights when he was playing in the top flight.

I mean, none of what I'm saying is unknown to anyone who watches Scottish football regularly. You can form an opinion based on the evidence we have or you can cross your fingers and say 'but we have to give him a chance he might come good!!!!' based on nothing but blind faith.

If you want to do the latter then fine, go ahead, but presuming he'll continue to be useless as per his whole career to date is the rational evidence based conclusion here. If I'm wrong I'll be delighted of course, but there's no reason to believe he's suddenly going to be transformed into a good goalkeeper.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Dunning1874

[Branch Ton]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

We wouldn't have re-signed a bunch of proven failures from last season's squad (including the coaching staff), whose 'continuity' in fact led to them failing to add a competent goalkeeper in the six weeks they had available to them anyway. Which is why we have Hamilton now. The nick of the first team that you're decrying was entirely within GMFC's power to change by clearing house and ending this full-time nonsense this summer, but as I pointed out they would foolishly treat play-off survival as a success and so here we are. 

That's before we even start on the two year deal handed out to keep the architect of these signings wedded to the club through 2023, or to secure a pointlessly large pay-off. 

The enormous task of overhauling the club behind the scenes this summer was reason 2B why relegation then was preferable to this alternative. The bulk of Morton fans bought into the delusion that the club is capable of both changing ownership structure and building a team that isn't total dung in the second tier at the same time. It's not. Instead, all of the compromises that were accepted in May as part of the gormless obsession with 'survival!!!!111!!!!' (in a division) are simply coming home to roost. We'll have to wait and see the full damage that they wreak on the genuine issue of survival - whether fans will fully buy into the idea of ownership, or become scunnered even before this season is over.

You should have applied for the job Doc, or did modesty prevent you. You are so wise and all seeing. It’s amazing you find time to pontificate on here and elsewhere and in such a positive spirit.

By the way is dung the new shit? 

[Dunning1874]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

We wouldn't have re-signed a bunch of proven failures from last season's squad (including the coaching staff), whose 'continuity' in fact led to them failing to add a competent goalkeeper in the six weeks they had available to them anyway. Which is why we have Hamilton now. The nick of the first team that you're decrying was entirely within GMFC's power to change by clearing house and ending this full-time nonsense this summer, but as I pointed out they would foolishly treat play-off survival as a success and so here we are. 

That's before we even start on the two year deal handed out to keep the architect of these signings wedded to the club through 2023, or to secure a pointlessly large pay-off. 

The enormous task of overhauling the club behind the scenes this summer was reason 2B why relegation then was preferable to this alternative. The bulk of Morton fans bought into the delusion that the club is capable of both changing ownership structure and building a team that isn't total dung in the second tier at the same time. It's not. Instead, all of the compromises that were accepted in May as part of the gormless obsession with 'survival!!!!111!!!!' (in a division) are simply coming home to roost. We'll have to wait and see the full damage that they wreak on the genuine issue of survival - whether fans will fully buy into the idea of ownership, or become scunnered even before this season is over.

As with every time we've had this conversation, I still reject your underlying premise that none of this would be happening if we were managing a transition to part-time football in the third tier rather than clinging to full time status in the second. The same mistakes away from the playing side, which are far more damaging to MCT's credibility, would still be happening regardless. In terms of the first team they might still have panicked and thrown a contract at MacPherson and even if they hadn't whoever the manager was might still have been signing a load of shite that would risk a relegation battle, only a level down.

Survival through the playoffs being wrongly viewed as a success did lead MCT to give MacPherson a new contract when he hadn't earned one; that didn't have to be an inevitable consequence of survival, they chose to do it. MacPherson handing new contracts to shite like Blues didn't have to happen, he chose to do it, it wasn't an inevitable consequence of survival. Signing a known dud like Flapjack as first choice goalkeeper when dozens of other goalkeepers are available wasn't an inevitable consequence of survival, he chose to do it.

None of this had to happen because we stayed up: that it was predictable and is coming to pass is down to incompetence, not having no realistic prospect of avoiding it.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Dunning1874

[The Ghost of B A R P]

There’s obviously ‘evidence’ to support both sides of the argument regarding Hamilton: on one hand, there’s the near unanimous chorus from Dundee fans (although somebody put up a clip in which all I could see was Dundee defenders making c***s of themselves)… and that clip of him against St Mirren where he thought he was Neuer… then froze.

On the other, Dundee paid 100k for him () and gave him a three-year deal, he played 10 times for Scotland u21, and actually got called up for senior squads.

There must be something there you’re never going to find in the wilds of the English non-league…

[The Ghost of B A R P]

38 minutes ago, virginton said:

We wouldn't have re-signed a bunch of proven failures from last season's squad (including the coaching staff), whose 'continuity' pitch in fact led to them failing to add a competent goalkeeper in the six weeks they had available to them anyway. Which is why we have Hamilton in now, four days before the season begins and after running through four previous targets in quick succession. The nick of the first team that you're decrying now was entirely within GMFC's power to change by actually clearing house and ending this full-time nonsense this summer. But as I pointed out they would foolishly treat play-off survival as a great vindication of the utter garbage produced in the spring instead and so here we are. That's before we even start on the two year deal handed out to keep the architect of these signings wedded to the club through 2023, or to secure him a pointlessly large pay-off. 

The enormous task of overhauling the club behind the scenes this summer was reason 2B why relegation then was preferable to this alternative. The bulk of Morton fans bought into the delusion that the club is capable of both changing ownership structure and building a team that isn't total dung in the second tier at the same time. It isn't. Instead, all of the compromises that were accepted in May as part of the gormless obsession with 'survival!!!!111!!!!' (in a division) are simply coming home to roost.

We'll have to wait and see the full damage that they wreak on the genuine issue of survival at stake - whether fans will fully buy into the idea of ownership, or become scunnered even before this season is over. 

You wanting us relegated again this year?

Because it will be ‘good for us’, right?

[Rudolph Hucker]

20 minutes ago, virginton said:

We'll have to wait and see the full damage that they wreak on the genuine issue of survival at stake - whether fans will fully buy into the idea of ownership, or become scunnered even before this season is over. 

I've cut the rest of that post out because its just more of the same old bollocks. You're not Nostradamus but you keep on harping on with 100% certainty that relegation to League One would've been a better outcome for the club than staying in the Championship. 

None of us (and yep, that includes you) will ever know if there was any truth in that argument - because relegation didn't happen. Get over it and stop this pointless, tedious harking back to it. 

What IS relevant here is your last paragraph. Don't you remember the apathy and pessimism that enveloped the entire support all of last season? Had the club been relegated there would have been no return from that position ; in fact the downward spiral amongst the support would've got much, much worse. There would've been cancellations and reduced contributions to MCT, there would've been very little new uptake of MCT membership - certainly compared to what HAS happened since Championship survival was guaranteed - and season ticket sales would be at a far lower level than they are. Playing budgets would have been drastically reduced and, considering some of the teams and budgets in the leagues below, we would have been looking at a prolonged stay in divisions lower than the Championship. It would have been disastrous for this club. 

Granted, I'm talking here with a similar level of certainty to yours - but I'm starting from the here and now and going forward from there with a common sense approach that is at least as valid as your doom-laden prediction. 

It may be that by the end of next season we'll be relegated. I'll take my chances on that as we would still be starting out with a community-owned club and, I would expect, less pessimism amongst the people who pay to keep the club going than had we gone down now.