The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[madton]

23 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

I've watched Jack Hamilton play 60 games for Dundee, not including friendlies.

Strengths: None. I deliberated on putting shot stopping as he can pull off a cracking save every 5 or 6 games but the amount of goals he's dived out the way of or just allowed it to go through him is ridiculous.

Weaknesses: The basics of being a goalkeeper. Zero communication, not a great kicker, one of those keepers that can't even list shot stopping as a positive. Just horrific. Bag of nerves that makes the defence a bag of nerves. He also doesn't do clean sheets.

In 60 games he conceded 105 goals. In 29 Championship games, he conceded 51 goals. To put that into context, your team conceded 33 goals last season.

ETA: Yes, we have had defensive issues too and that can't just be blamed on him, but the evidence points to our GA collumn DRASTICALLY improving when he's not in the team.

In Hazards & Legzdins time ahead of Hamilton, they played a combination of 22 games, kept 11 clean sheets and conceded 16 goals.

Genuinely curious how he managed 60 odd games for you if he was so shite?

Surely he would have been found out and dropped.

He must have some qualities,  surely?

[Ex Machina]

17 minutes ago, madton said:

Genuinely curious how he managed 60 odd games for you if he was so shite?

Surely he would have been found out and dropped.

He must have some qualities,  surely?

[Rudolph Hucker]

21 minutes ago, madton said:

Genuinely curious how he managed 60 odd games for you if he was so shite?

Surely he would have been found out and dropped.

He must have some qualities,  surely?

Dont be daft, this is P&B - everything is either 100% black or 100% white on here....   

........ usually black. 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Rudolph Hucker

[vikingTON]

56 minutes ago, madton said:

Genuinely curious how he managed 60 odd games for you if he was so shite?

Surely he would have been found out and dropped.

He must have some qualities,  surely?

You seem to be confusing Dundee FC with a competent football club.

[Ludo*1]

2 hours ago, madton said:

Genuinely curious how he managed 60 odd games for you if he was so shite?

Surely he would have been found out and dropped.

He must have some qualities,  surely?

Neil McCann spent £100k on him and gave him a 3 year deal.

McCann dropped him half way into the season for Elliott Parish before being sacked.

Jim McIntyre came in and had him as first choice again until we reached January when he dropped him for the loan signing of Seny Dieng.

James McPake then took over as we were relegated and gave him another chance. We went into the season with him as our only keeper other than a youth option. McPake still dropped him for the youth keeper, but he was a nervous wreck and went back to Hamilton until we brought Hazard in on loan. 

The season was then stopped early and McPake spent the summer thinking we were going to get Hazard back on loan. Celtic fucked us about and McPake was so confident we'd get Hazard eventually that we held off, and off, and off until the season had started and Celtic decided they needed Hazard.

We then went a couple of month into the season with Hamilton and Calum Ferrie. Hamilton was dropped for Ferrie who then kept the same amount of clean sheets as Hamilton did last season in 3 games, but chucked the ball in the net twice against Alloa.

We then signed Adam Legzdins who got injured on his debut and was out for about 4 month once again giving Hamilton the gloves until he recovered.

In a too long, didn't read fashion:

Luck, incompetence from managers and the fact he was a 100k investment allowed him to play so many times for us.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

5 hours ago, BraeTon74 said:

I'm in agreement with much of what you said. I was only talking about the race for 8th. However, like you, I don't want 8th to be our ambition, especially not if its achieved through eyebleeding football. 

It’s fine lines though, isn’t it?

This season, from where we are, if you offered us 7th - just one massive place up - playing more expansive and aggressive football, we’d all take it.

Long term it’s a bit depressing, but in the immediate term trying to put a squad together to finish above Ayr, Arbroath, and QoS (and hope maybe one of the others go into freefall) is the realistic objective.

We’re not there yet, by any means… but that’s McPherson’s job description. Completely fair to judge him against that; absurd to judge him against anything else.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

Neil McCann spent £100k on him and gave him a 3 year deal.

McCann dropped him half way into the season for Elliott Parish before being sacked.

Jim McIntyre came in and had him as first choice again until we reached January when he dropped him for the loan signing of Seny Dieng.

James McPake then took over as we were relegated and gave him another chance. We went into the season with him as our only keeper other than a youth option. McPake still dropped him for the youth keeper, but he was a nervous wreck and went back to Hamilton until we brought Hazard in on loan. 

The season was then stopped early and McPake spent the summer thinking we were going to get Hazard back on loan. Celtic fucked us about and McPake was so confident we'd get Hazard eventually that we held off, and off, and off until the season had started and Celtic decided they needed Hazard.

We then went a couple of month into the season with Hamilton and Calum Ferrie. Hamilton was dropped for Ferrie who then kept the same amount of clean sheets as Hamilton did last season in 3 games, but chucked the ball in the net twice against Alloa.

We then signed Adam Legzdins who got injured on his debut and was out for about 4 month once again giving Hamilton the gloves until he recovered.

In a too long, didn't read fashion:

Luck, incompetence from managers and the fact he was a 100k investment allowed him to play so many times for us.

That’s fair enough and it’s good to know that level of detail.

We have to hope that the scars - and there are clearly a lot of them - are Dens-specific and that he responds to being first-choice in new surroundings.

It’s a punt, no doubt, but not a ridiculous punt for a club with Morton’s budget to take.

[vikingTON]

16 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

It’s fine lines though, isn’t it?

This season, from where we are, if you offered us 7th - just one massive place up - playing more expansive and aggressive football, we’d all take it.

Long term it’s a bit depressing, but in the immediate term trying to put a squad together to finish above Ayr, Arbroath, and QoS (and hope maybe one of the others go into freefall) is the realistic objective.

We’re not there yet, by any means… but that’s McPherson’s job description. Completely fair to judge him against that; absurd to judge him against anything else.

What is the 'realistic objective'? Because one minute you insert the proviso of "more expansive and aggressive football", then you flip-flop back to merely finishing above three other crap teams. Trying just to just do that would tank the credibility of the new regime straight away. 

If there is significant* progress across all the points that you mention then that would certainly be a good campaign. There's absolutely nothing to indicate that this outcome will be achieved though. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* not simply 'improvement': scraping 8th on the final day rather than 9th for example would still be wretched).

Edited July 8, 2021 by vikingTON

[The Ghost of B A R P]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

What is the 'realistic objective'? Because one minute you insert the proviso of "more expansive and aggressive football", then you flip-flop back to merely finishing above three other crap teams.

If there is significant* demonstrable progress across all the points that you mention then that would certainly be a good campaign There's absolutely nothing to indicate that this good outcome will be achieved though. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* not simply 'improvement': scraping 8th on the final day rather than 9th for example would still be wretched).

I thought it was pretty clear: play better, finish slightly higher.

If we’re scuffling around 9th towards the end of the season (so anything like last year), he won’t have passed that test.

I made no comment on indications the objective will be achieved, btw (ask me at the end of August); but we agree about what the objective actually is, yes?

And that to expect anything more at this stage would be totally unrealistic?

[Branch Ton]

31 minutes ago, virginton said:

* not simply 'improvement': scraping 8th on the final day rather than 9th for example would still be wretched).

Not quite as wretched as your preferred business model which would have seen us relegated last year, followed by  a total clear out and rebuild with no ability whatsoever to make attractive offers to quality players. Only then to scramble about with dross in the seaside league.

Did Brexit put paid to your cunning plan to use your Pan Slav network to bring in Eastern European dung?

[Rudolph Hucker]

5 minutes ago, Branch Ton said:

Not quite as wretched as your preferred business model which would have seen us relegated last year, followed by  a total clear out and rebuild with no ability whatsoever to make attractive offers to quality players. Only then to scramble about with dross in the seaside league.

Nail. On. Head.

[vikingTON]

16 hours ago, Branch Ton said:

Not quite as wretched as your preferred business model which would have seen us relegated last year, followed by  a total clear out and rebuild with no ability whatsoever to make attractive offers to quality players. Only then to scramble about with dross in the seaside league.

^^^ idiot found

That'll be why we've deservedly finished below a part-time side operating with a fraction of our resources then, in each of the last two seasons. They must be fuming that they too can't offer a massive £300 a week to dross like Cameron Blues, so that they can do nothing other than train and watch Judge Judy instead. 

[Branch Ton]

25 minutes ago, virginton said:

^^^ idiot found

That'll be why we've deservedly finished below a part-time side operating with a fraction of our resources then, in each of the last two seasons. They must be fuming that they too can't offer a massive £300 a week to dross like Cameron Blues, so that they can do nothing other than train and watch Judge Judy instead. 

That the sort of defective reply I’d expect from a Tory politician who knows that his central premise is based on sand. It provides no justification whatsoever for your claim that we would be better off playing in the seaside league this season. Your failure to do so is telling.

By the way how much does the government pay you to sit at home and bitch on here?

[Rudolph Hucker]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

^^^ idiot found

That'll be why we've deservedly finished below a part-time side operating with a fraction of our resources then, in each of the last two seasons. They must be fuming that they too can't offer a massive £300 a week to dross like Cameron Blues, so that they can do nothing other than train and watch Judge Judy instead. 

^^^^^ dissembling nonsense once again.

The rubbish above has nothing to do with what’s  being debated, ie your many-times-debunked premise that relegation would have been the best thing for the club. Relegation would have been a financial disaster for Morton at a time when the new regime is at its most vulnerable, and the effect on the already battered morale of the support would have been disastrous, resulting in a further drop in financial support both via MCT and in attendances, whether physical or virtual. Give up this nonsense - it didn’t happen and it is utterly pointless to continue discussing it. We are where we are and we have to concentrate on making the best of it.

I really don’t think you’re convinced that it’s a valid argument anyway; you simply can’t stand losing a debate so will continue to flog the same dead horse till everyone else tires of this and lets it drop, at which point you can tell yourself that you won after all. It’s what you do.   But it’s time to stop.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Branch Ton said:

That the sort of defective reply I’d expect from a Tory politician who knows that his central premise is based on sand. It provides no justification whatsoever for your claim that we would be better off playing in the seaside league this season. Your failure to do so is telling.

By the way how much does the government pay you to sit at home and bitch on here?

The justifications were set out months ago chump; they're not going to be restated for your benefit. And every single prediction of the costs of gormless 'survival' for survival's sake have come to pass.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Relegation would have been a financial disaster for Morton at a time when the new regime is at its most vulnerable, 

GMFC received a completely ridiculous £500k bung from the government, will have all its debts cleared as a result of the takeover deal, and had only a handful of youngsters on the payroll, at the end of the 20/21 campaign. You're talking complete and utter nonsense then - the club was in an excellent position to structure its costs to match revenue, whether in League One or the Championship.

If GMFC was somehow incapable of dealing with relegation under those conditions without facing 'financial disaster', then the club will surely die as and when relegation inevitably occurs under less favourable circumstances in the future. There are already a stack of two year deals that act as hostages to fortune, if we were to be relegated this season instead. The claim about the impact on 'supporter morale' and support for fan ownership will only be enhanced by the new regime being wholly responsible for relegation, this season or any season in the near future. MCT would not have taken the hit last season; the Raes would have instead. 

Your gormless argument then boils down to 'GMFC must never be relegated from the second tier under any circumstances or else it's Armageddon', which is not a serious approach to running a professional football club and business.

The best opportunity that the club will have to restructure to function properly at whatever level its first team squad plays at is being frittered away on a daily basis, as a result of the short term obsession with league status. We have nearly gone under twice this century already and unless Morton fans stop drinking the Rae Kool-Aid about playing in the 'right division' being the most important task then we'll be getting out the begging bowl again soon enough. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by vikingTON

[Branch Ton]

26 minutes ago, virginton said:

GMFC received a completely ridiculous £500k bung from the government, will have all its debts cleared as a result of the takeover deal, and had only a handful of youngsters on the payroll, at the end of the 20/21 campaign. You're talking complete and utter nonsense then - the club was in an excellent position to structure its costs to match revenue, whether in League One or the Championship.

If GMFC was somehow incapable of dealing with relegation under those conditions without facing 'financial disaster', then the club will surely die as and when relegation inevitably occurs under less favourable circumstances in the future. There are already a stack of two year deals that act as hostages to fortune, if we were to be relegated this season instead. The claim about the impact on 'supporter morale' and support for fan ownership will only be enhanced by the new regime being wholly responsible for relegation, this season or any season in the near future. MCT would not have taken the hit last season; the Raes would have instead. 

Your gormless argument then boils down to 'GMFC must never be relegated from the second tier under any circumstances or else it's Armageddon', which is not a serious approach to running a professional football club and business.

The best opportunity that the club will have to restructure to function properly at whatever level its first team squad plays at is being frittered away on a daily basis, as a result of the short term obsession with league status. We have nearly gone under twice this century already and unless Morton fans stop drinking the Rae Kool-Aid about playing in the 'right division' being the most important task then we'll be getting out the begging bowl again soon enough. 

So in your own  LaLaLand business model we begin this season with an offer to  both  fans/sponsors and prospective new signings of at least a season in the seaside league. Just run your numbers past us in relation to season ticket sales, gate receipts, prize money sponsorship etc, player budget, operating profit/loss and which fresh talent think would rush to join a team in the seaside leagues.

Oh, and be very precise. Your usual morose turgid prose won’t cut it on this. 

[BraeTon74]

On 08/07/2021 at 10:05, Rudolph Hucker said:

Do they, though? I might have missed it, but although the monies were paid to the club do we know who will actually get the benefit of it -  the old regime or the new regime? 

I think the  earlier grant was conditional on it being used for certain defined purposes within the club - but I don't recall seeing mention of such conditions applying to the  Scottish Government money, although it would be surprising if there were none. 

 

MCT said there was still a significant portion of the 500k that they would inherit after the end of last season.

[BraeTon74]

22 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

It’s fine lines though, isn’t it?

This season, from where we are, if you offered us 7th - just one massive place up - playing more expansive and aggressive football, we’d all take it.

Long term it’s a bit depressing, but in the immediate term trying to put a squad together to finish above Ayr, Arbroath, and QoS (and hope maybe one of the others go into freefall) is the realistic objective.

We’re not there yet, by any means… but that’s McPherson’s job description. Completely fair to judge him against that; absurd to judge him against anything else.

Its not about whats on the park for me, its about whats happening off of it. The club does nothing to endear itself to its current fanbase and does less than nothing to attract new fans. Focussing solely on staying up will damage the club long term if its at the expense of building the club up in the community and beyond.

 

Of course those things dont have to be exclusive and, in an ideal world, we would be able to challenge for the promotion playoffs and make lasting change away from the pitch. I just dont have faith Morton can do that.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

1 hour ago, BraeTon74 said:

Its not about whats on the park for me, its about whats happening off of it. The club does nothing to endear itself to its current fanbase and does less than nothing to attract new fans. Focussing solely on staying up will damage the club long term if its at the expense of building the club up in the community and beyond.

 

Of course those things dont have to be exclusive and, in an ideal world, we would be able to challenge for the promotion playoffs and make lasting change away from the pitch. I just dont have faith Morton can do that.

I'm also concerned about the way the MCT transition has gone so far and agree there are big question marks against their ability to really bring about change in the way the club operates, but you make the key point yourself: consolidation on the park (immediate term) doesn't have to be at the expense of development off it (ongoing).

How successful MCT are in changing the culture, generating new income etc. will affect future seasons, but for this one the manager and the budget are in place and McPherson has a very specific job to do... and how well he manages it will have an effect on the bigger picture.

The positive, as I've said, is that it isn't an impossible job: spend money more wisely than Hopkin/Rae, get us playing better than the rancid stuff we saw for most of last year, and keep us at arm's length from any relegation battle.

The manager and players need to just concentrate on that; we can have a separate conversation about the off-field issues as the MCT era develops.