Homer Thompson Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I used the term "APPEAR" as it is my perception, for Queens 1950's to 2000's would suggest the general trend is downwards, it's not just the Quality of football on offer or the expected comfort to watch the product in, it's societies cultural changes that need to be factored in. Being disrespectful of any stakeholder I would argue is less than productive. Crowds in general arent going down. The figures have been posted on here many times. Pointing out the, very obvious, flaws in an argument is not being disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I used the term "APPEAR" as it is my perception, for Queens 1950's to 2000's would suggest the general trend is downwards, it's not just the Quality of football on offer or the expected comfort to watch the product in, it's societies cultural changes that need to be factored in. Being disrespectful of any stakeholder I would argue is less than productive. Well of course crowds have shrunk from their post-war all time high of sixty odd years ago due to the cultural changes you refer to. The trend over more recent decades however is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Maybe theyre holding up but thweres alot of room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I used the term "APPEAR" as it is my perception, for Queens 1950's to 2000's would suggest the general trend is downwards, it's not just the Quality of football on offer or the expected comfort to watch the product in, it's societies cultural changes that need to be factored in. Being disrespectful of any stakeholder I would argue is less than productive. If you want to pick a particular team and a particular period, which happens to begin with pretty much the peak attendances time in history, then you'll always find something to suit your argument. Equally if you want to stick to Queens and compare crowds now to those in the 80's and early 90's you'll find a startling increase in general trend. More generally if you look at Scottish football as a whole I'm sure HJ will happily trot out again the figures that prove attendances generally are very much on the increase. I don't see anything particularly demeaning in pointing out that the Leagues of Ireland and Wales are part time semi professional leagues playing a significantly lower level of football than their near neighbours. That's a fact. They don't pretend to be anything else. Hence why any Irish and Welsh born players of any quality don't play in their domestic leagues. That is logically what you can expect for Scotland if we move towards much shorter seasons played across the summer. If that's what people want fine, it's not what I want. The actual "need" for summer football is completely over-stated anyway. Relatively few fixtures are lost each year to weather, a number which is reducing as the trend towards 3G continues, and even fewer of those are lost in the specific period being suggested for not playing (January). We have plenty of time to catch up those fixtures without excessive squeezing of fixtures except in the most extreme of circumstances such as Brechin being unable to get their pitch playable for months in 2013 due to a drainage issue. I'd say the timing of the season as it stands is just about spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen-Warrior Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I believe the introduction of safe standing areas will help attendances, it would encourage more supports in the home end to make a bit of noise, it's hard to want to sing and make noise sitting down and when you do stand you get a yellow coat wearing power hungry steward waiting to pounce on the chance to tell you to sit down. The cost of watching football is the bug bear. I think it should be made to be more affordable. Eg albion rovers pay what you want scheme saw their attendances increase. And one we are implementing next season reduced price for visiting season ticket holders. While it may not increase revenue it's opening up an avenue for fans to get to a game. I see Scottish premiership prices and think I'd rather go out with my other half for a day and spend the same amount but do more. One of the joys of lower league football is the lower prices but it's still not a cheap day out when you include travel costs admission a few pints etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I believe the introduction of safe standing areas will help attendances, it would encourage more supports in the home end to make a bit of noise, it's hard to want to sing and make noise sitting down and when you do stand you get a yellow coat wearing power hungry steward waiting to pounce on the chance to tell you to sit down. It will be interesting to see what effect this has, if any, presuming enough clubs actually introduce it. I'm completely unconvinced the reality will help at all. Even if we accept the premise that lots of people don't bother going to football because they don't like to sit down (something I personally think is highly unlikely) I expect the reality of safe standing areas to be very anti-climactical for those who think they are going to see a return to the bouncing about like a maniac when a goal is scored, pile on with your mates, end up 20 yards along the terrace from where you started days. Safe standing is just the same as seating without a seat. You have your own designated space, there are barriers in front and behind to prevent the very thing that supposedly helps the atmosphere, free movement. Personally I don't believe swathes of people are sitting at home who would like to go to football but don't because they have to sit down. I accept that there will be plenty of people who do still go who would prefer to stand although as pointed out above I'm not sure how much of an improvement they'll really find this halfway house approach. However that won't help attendances. I fully expect those who don't go now to find another excuse not to go if there were terraces back, even if it was the return of the old style terraces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen-Warrior Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I was unaware that the safe standing was a designated spot. I was unsure how it would work if brought it. I agree. I doubt many fans will look the other way to going if they have to sit. I know it doesn't put my off going to Ochilview. But you'll know yourself from Queens short lived spell in league one you hardly get swarms of away fans in a terrace. But I do prefer the ability to stand where I please at an away game. I suppose the restriction imposed with a barrier either side of you does have the same feel to being in a seat. But we won't know till its implemented if it's a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I was unaware that the safe standing was a designated spot. I was unsure how it would work if brought it. I agree. I doubt many fans will look the other way to going if they have to sit. I know it doesn't put my off going to Ochilview. But you'll know yourself from Queens short lived spell in league one you hardly get swarms of away fans in a terrace. But I do prefer the ability to stand where I please at an away game. I suppose the restriction imposed with a barrier either side of you does have the same feel to being in a seat. But we won't know till its implemented if it's a success.It won't be implemented at all widely in Scotland as it's expensive to do so.What it will do is offer an alternative to a small number of fans in the country. This has been sought after and I welcome it as a move, although I expect it to be on a pretty small scale and as SD says, very far removed from what people remember. I also expect it to have virtually no detectable impact on gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Maybe theyre holding up but thweres alot of room for improvement. Agreed. That's not where summer football comes in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I believe the introduction of safe standing areas will help attendances, it would encourage more supports in the home end to make a bit of noise, it's hard to want to sing and make noise sitting down and when you do stand you get a yellow coat wearing power hungry steward waiting to pounce on the chance to tell you to sit down. The cost of watching football is the bug bear. I think it should be made to be more affordable. Eg albion rovers pay what you want scheme saw their attendances increase. And one we are implementing next season reduced price for visiting season ticket holders. While it may not increase revenue it's opening up an avenue for fans to get to a game. I see Scottish premiership prices and think I'd rather go out with my other half for a day and spend the same amount but do more. One of the joys of lower league football is the lower prices but it's still not a cheap day out when you include travel costs admission a few pints etc I think safe standing is much like the idea of selling alcohol. Theres a small minority of fans shouting very loudly about it, a number of who see it as some sort of magic bullet to massively increase attendances. Both might improve some fans matchday experience but neither are going to bring about huge numbers of fans to football who dont already go. Much like summer football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen-Warrior Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think safe standing is much like the idea of selling alcohol. Theres a small minority of fans shouting very loudly about it, a number of who see it as some sort of magic bullet to massively increase attendances. Both might improve some fans matchday experience but neither are going to bring about huge numbers of fans to football who dont already go. Much like summer football You do make a fair point. Summer football doesn't phase me here nor there. But the safe standing/alcohol may not increase crowds at least it would make the experience better for the regulars that attend and maintain a more consistant number of spectators each week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Thompson Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You do make a fair point. Summer football doesn't phase me here nor there. But the safe standing/alcohol may not increase crowds at least it would make the experience better for the regulars that attend and maintain a more consistant number of spectators each week? It almost certainly will - although there are issues around alcohol and families etc. Neither come with the major upheaval that summer football does though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Agreed. That's not where summer football comes in though. i keep saying i dont want summer football just a revamped league and a winter break. change is the only constant you know. i dont think just keeping everything the same will magicaly improve things on its own. i dont believe the mainstream medias view of "everything will be fine when rangers get promoted" everything wasnt fine before oldco imploaded. We've had this system for what 15 years now? the product and the crowds have been in decline for almost a decade now. play offs help but thats about it. - 2 maybe 3 devision of 16 teams nationwide. 2 up 2 down plus play offs. regional below that. automatic relegation from the botton national tier plus play offs. - league cup group stages (make up for lost league games) and return to the pre xmas final Freshen things up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 i keep saying i dont want summer football just a revamped league and a winter break. change is the only constant you know. i dont think just keeping everything the same will magicaly improve things on its own. i dont believe the mainstream medias view of "everything will be fine when rangers get promoted" everything wasnt fine before oldco imploaded. We've had this system for what 15 years now? the product and the crowds have been in decline for almost a decade now. play offs help but thats about it. - 2 maybe 3 devision of 16 teams nationwide. 2 up 2 down plus play offs. regional below that. automatic relegation from the botton national tier plus play offs. - league cup group stages (make up for lost league games) and return to the pre xmas final Freshen things up Crowds aren't down though, unless you are one of the old firm. Crowds are increasing. The only workable increase in numbers is 16 with a split, the league cup group stage may make up for number of games, but won't make up for revenue, which is what it's all about at the end of the day. I do agree on the pre-christmas league cup though, and challenge cup for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspy Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Summer football you say?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Naitch Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Summer football you say?? Horrendous stuff out there. Smashes the summer football argument to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 @ScotlandSky: Heat wave?! @RaithRovers_FC have been forced to postpone their friendly against @BrechinCityFC because of last night's heavy rain. #SSNHQ Realistically how many more decent Saturdays would you get with summer football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I was unaware that the safe standing was a designated spot. I was unsure how it would work if brought it. I agree. I doubt many fans will look the other way to going if they have to sit. I know it doesn't put my off going to Ochilview. But you'll know yourself from Queens short lived spell in league one you hardly get swarms of away fans in a terrace. But I do prefer the ability to stand where I please at an away game. I suppose the restriction imposed with a barrier either side of you does have the same feel to being in a seat. But we won't know till its implemented if it's a success.So you didn't know anything about safe standing, except that you thought it would increase attendances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 @ScotlandSky: Heat wave?! @RaithRovers_FC have been forced to postpone their friendly against @BrechinCityFC because of last night's heavy rain. #SSNHQ Realistically how many more decent Saturdays would you get with summer football? 100% correct decision. Brand new pitch been laid over the close season and we're going to ruin it for a meaningless kick about and spend more money to repair it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 100% correct decision. Brand new pitch been laid over the close season and we're going to ruin it for a meaningless kick about and spend more money to repair it.Not saying it wasn't the correct decision toddyI'd have hoped we would do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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