Yet another US shooting

[Yank Mike]

Genuinely one of the most disgusting statements I've ever seen. I have no idea how anyone can come to this type of thinking.

What? People don't have some sort of natural right to immigrate to the USA. If such immigration results in people here having to change their culture or way of life, then the immigration should stop rather than us having to change.

 

 

Anyone who's played GTA Vice City will know you're wrong. For those who know exactly what I'm talking about, you're all horrible, horrible people.

I don't play video games and I'm not some sort of trained expert on guns. Maybe I'm wrong, but based on my experience shooting I don't think a so-called "assault rifle" would be the best gun for a mass shooting in an enclosed and crowded area. And that's especially true for people who don't have extensive experience with these weapons. That's why I'm not sure why so many people are focusing on banning assault rifles. Banning handguns as well would at least be logical. Banning assault rifles and not handguns makes no sense. It will do nothing to stop mass shootings, which should be the standard for any restrictions on gun rights. The burden of proof should be on the banners to show how their new law would benefit society rather than just appearing to do something.

[Mr. Brightside]

What? People don't have some sort of natural right to immigrate to the USA. If such immigration results in people here having to change their culture or way of life, then the immigration should stop rather than us having to change.

Lol

[pandarilla]

What? People don't have some sort of natural right to immigrate to the USA. If such immigration results in people here having to change their culture or way of life, then the immigration should stop rather than us having to change.

I don't play video games and I'm not some sort of trained expert on guns. Maybe I'm wrong, but based on my experience shooting I don't think a so-called "assault rifle" would be the best gun for a mass shooting in an enclosed and crowded area. And that's especially true for people who don't have extensive experience with these weapons. That's why I'm not sure why so many people are focusing on banning assault rifles. Banning handguns as well would at least be logical. Banning assault rifles and not handguns makes no sense. It will do nothing to stop mass shootings, which should be the standard for any restrictions on gun rights. The burden of proof should be on the banners to show how their new law would benefit society rather than just appearing to do something.

Surely there is already quite substantial evidence to suggest a wholesale ban on guns would benefit society.

But yeah, like someone else stated earlier, I've stopped caring that much. Americans deserve the society they have, like the rest of us.

[Yank Mike]

killers.JPG

 

http://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough in my post. I was responding to the idea that as Islam becomes more popular in the US and as we take in more poor refugees (currently the US Muslim population and our homegrown terrorist problem are very middle class) our gun system will make us the softest target. Europe currently has more gun based Islamic attacks than the US, but Europe also has way more Muslims and way more Muslims living a parallel life of poverty in ghettos. But at least it's harder for them to obtain guns or you'd see way more attacks in Europe. If the US ends up with a situation like that we will be sitting ducks with our gun laws. It was a good argument the gentleman made. I responded that stopping a European type Muslim situation from developing in the US though immigration controls is preferable changing US gun laws.

 

Also, based on your own stats it seems like the Muslim mass shooting issue is increasing. There were basically no Muslims in the US in 1985 and terrorism against the West was also not a problem at the time. Looking at more recent data from your Mother Jones post, 3 of the last 7 have been Muslims.

 

 

I'm sure someone on here said that there is a mass shooting every day.

That doesn't tie in with the graph.

That's if you include gang shootings, which aren't really relevant when talking about random mass shootings by crazy people or terrorists. Some lefty publications try to include the gang shootings to make the issue seem worse than it is.

 

 

Was the guy that was tooled up for the gay pride parade in Los Angeles just coincidental?

That seems very strange. Reports suggested he could've done some serious damage too.

Last I heard was the he was an actual gay dude. Some of his friends are saying that the guns in his car have been there for months and he always drives around with them. Others are saying that he's crazy and has violent tendencies. He's currently under a court order from months ago to surrender his weapons, but I guess the government never got around to checking on whether he complied.

[welshbairn]

 There were basically no Muslims in the US in 1985

 

 

P.S. There were a thousand mosques in America in 1952.

 

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/islam-in-america/

Edited June 14, 2016 by welshbairn

[Yank Mike]

Surely there is already quite substantial evidence to suggest a wholesale ban on guns would benefit society.

.

Maybe. But guns are very, very tied up in the identity and culture of America.

 

There are three main arguments against gun control benefiting America or being effective, even if we did decide to give up our historic identity and culture of a gun owning people.

1. America is a naturally more violent place. In the 1800s there weren't any gun laws in the UK or Canada. But the US was a much more violent place. Charles Dickens on his trip to America said that Americans seem to use their freedom mostly to shoot and stab each other in the street. You can see the difference culture plays by looking at our neighbor Mexico which basically bans guns and our other neighbor Canada which has some of the most lenient gun laws in the world (though they are obviously much more strict than the US).

2. There are 300 million guns in the US. We have a massive problem with criminal gangs in the black ghettos and the Mexican drug cartels which control large portions of territory on our southern border more than the Mexican government. Those people aren't turning in their guns. Right now they generally keep their violence to themselves and are very loathe to engage in violence outside of their communities. If the normal law abiding citizens are disarmed a large percentage of the deterrent to engaging in crime outside of their community goes away.

3. Any major ban on guns is going to result in a war on drugs style fiasco, except worse. At least the war on drugs generally targets dealers and career criminals with the worst excesses. A large portion of otherwise law abiding Americans are not going to turn in their guns. If you want to really enforce the ban you are going to have federal agents kicking in doors and handing out long jail sentences to normal middle and working class Americans all over the country. It's highly probable that the country would break apart, with rural states leading the way, before allowing such a thing to happen.

[pandarilla]

I understand the arguments. I don't agree with them but I understand them.

Mine was a cheap shot about the burden of proof. To most sane and rational people the evidence for stricter gun control is overwhelming.

Edited June 14, 2016 by pandarilla

[Yank Mike]

Take out the Nation of Islam black Muslims and what I say is true. There were 1 million in 2000. There are currently over 3 million. I'm sure if you go back to 1985 you'd find a very small number.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Also, based on your own stats it seems like the Muslim mass shooting issue is increasing. There were basically no Muslims in the US in 1985 and terrorism against the West was also not a problem at the time.

I could've sworn The PLO were blowing up aeroplanes and disrupting Olympics on and before 85, maybe I'm wrong.

[welshbairn]

Almost every gun used in mass killings has been legally bought in a store. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could buy an illegal gun in Inverness, but it would take a bit of time. I'd probably have to work my way up from buying cannabis to heroin and in a decent amount, and would probably end up getting it off a weegie or a scouser. In that time I might decide that going into a nightclub and trying to kill everyone wasn't worth the trouble.

[welshbairn]

Take out the Nation of Islam black Muslims and what I say is true. There were 1 million in 2000. There are currently over 3 million. I'm sure if you go back to 1985 you'd find a very small number.

 

Just so you know I edited that post before you posted that.

[Worktheshaft]

Almost every gun used in mass killings has been legally bought in a store. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could buy an illegal gun in Inverness, but it would take a bit of time. I'd probably have to work my way up from buying cannabis to heroin and in a decent amount, and would probably end up getting it off a weegie or a scouser. In that time I might decide that going into a nightclub and trying to kill everyone wasn't worth the trouble.

Drop me a DM m8 I'll sort you out.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Drop me a DM m8 I'll sort you out.

^^^

[Cerberus]

Maybe. But guns are very, very tied up in the identity and culture of America.

There are three main arguments against gun control benefiting America or being effective, even if we did decide to give up our historic identity and culture of a gun owning people.

1. America is a naturally more violent place. In the 1800s there weren't any gun laws in the UK or Canada. But the US was a much more violent place. Charles Dickens on his trip to America said that Americans seem to use their freedom mostly to shoot and stab each other in the street. You can see the difference culture plays by looking at our neighbor Mexico which basically bans guns and our other neighbor Canada which has some of the most lenient gun laws in the world (though they are obviously much more strict than the US).

2. There are 300 million guns in the US. We have a massive problem with criminal gangs in the black ghettos and the Mexican drug cartels which control large portions of territory on our southern border more than the Mexican government. Those people aren't turning in their guns. Right now they generally keep their violence to themselves and are very loathe to engage in violence outside of their communities. If the normal law abiding citizens are disarmed a large percentage of the deterrent to engaging in crime outside of their community goes away.

3. Any major ban on guns is going to result in a war on drugs style fiasco, except worse. At least the war on drugs generally targets dealers and career criminals with the worst excesses. A large portion of otherwise law abiding Americans are not going to turn in their guns. If you want to really enforce the ban you are going to have federal agents kicking in doors and handing out long jail sentences to normal middle and working class Americans all over the country. It's highly probable that the country would break apart, with rural states leading the way, before allowing such a thing to happen.

Really good points.

It's a more indepth discussion than a straight guns are bad mm'k.

[welshbairn]

 

 We have a massive problem with... Mexican drug cartels which control large portions of territory on our southern border more than the Mexican government. 

 

Who source their weaponry in the US because of the stricter gun laws at home. Just turn up at a gun fair with no i.d. and sorted.

[Granny Danger]

Really good points.

It's a more indepth discussion than a straight guns are bad mm'k.

Actually they're not.

All that is highlighting is that the U.S. has huge social problems that they're not interested in tackling. Rather they think large scale incarceration, more guns and the death penalty are the answers though there is plenty of evidence to show that none of these are a solution to the problems.

[welshbairn]

Actually they're not.

All that is highlighting is that the U.S. has huge social problems that they're not interested in tackling. Rather they think large scale incarceration, more guns and the death penalty are the answers though there is plenty of evidence to show that none of these are a solution to the problems.

 

Part of their problem is that they treat an 18th Century document in the same way as Islamic fundamentalists treat the Koran. The Constitution was written in a particular time, just after a revolution, when armed militias were essential to gain their independence. Guns and ammo were very expensive at the time, relatively few people owned them, so the idea that randoms could walk into a shop or gunfair and buy a military grade killing machine wasn't considered. 

[Ya Bezzer!]

2. There are 300 million guns in the US. We have a massive problem with criminal gangs in the black ghettos and the Mexican drug cartels which control large portions of territory on our southern border more than the Mexican government. Those people aren't turning in their guns. Right now they generally keep their violence to themselves and are very loathe to engage in violence outside of their communities. If the normal law abiding citizens are disarmed a large percentage of the deterrent to engaging in crime outside of their community goes away.

 

Really?  What you are saying is that organized crime in the United States is basically the same as it is here.  When someone is shot here you basically know the guy was a gangster because the people with guns (ie criminals) don't shot the people without guns (ie law abiding citizens).

 

If hardened criminals were deterred by gun ownership they wouldn't have become hardened criminals in the first place.

[THE KING]

Maybe he was just upset at being caught in a gay bar? Omar Omar is that you? Hey Omar remember me? Hey it's Omar isn't it ? It's me !Omar Omar say something!....eh....Allaah Akbar!!!!

Edited June 14, 2016 by THE KING

[cyderspaceman]

People killed by gunman in America. Not really 'news' is it?