When will indyref2 happen?

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

The "first" UK came into existence via the Treaty of Union 1707.

It was voted for by the Commissioners of Scotland.

No,

As you know the answer to these questions, and no one disputed them, I'm unsure of the purpose of your asking them. It hardly scores you a point when they were never in dispute.

What does confirm you as a tiresome contrarian is your labouring argument against your misreading of my post. I asked what kev calls a former nation which forms a minor region of a state that also includes a larger former nation. Your answer, as you chose to offer it, was "a political union". Which is patently stupid. Scotland, the former nation to which I referred, is not a "political union". By all means, though, continue to tell me what my question to kev actually meant if it makes you feel "right" and that you have the last word.

You might think Scotland is a minor region but that's your inferiority complex coming out. It  discolours your every thought and deed.

Personally, I think Scotland is a country with a very strong identity, culture and a proud place in the world both now and historically.

The country's political identity has  far less bearing on it's unique identity ( i.e Scottishness) or it's citizens identity than you want us to believe. If it did then we would be just like the English after 300 yrs of so- called subservience. 

As we have as strong a national identity now than ever in our history (probably) then I would suggest that union with rUK is NOT detrimental to our national identity or to the expression of our nationhood and it is, indeed,  a Union of equal nations . Within England there are many cities, regions with strong identities also , that don't always see eye to eye with Westminster, but they manage without calling for independence.

I would also suggest that economically, being in the Union is amazingly brilliant for Scotland and to separate ourselves economically and politically from rUK would make Brexit seem like a walk in the park, such would be the utter devastation to our economy and standard of living.

I don't agree that Scotland's 'voice' is being ignored either as Scotland has a parliament, has a Gov't and has a First Minister. If the FM is shit at her job because she can't engage with rUK without playing to the gallery then maybe she is the wrong person for the job.

[DublinMagyar]

You might think Scotland is a minor region but that's your inferiority complex coming out. It  discolours your every thought and deed.

Personally, I think Scotland is a country with a very strong identity, culture and a proud place in the world both now and historically.

The country's political identity has  far less bearing on it's unique identity ( i.e Scottishness) or it's citizens identity than you want us to believe. If it did then we would be just like the English after 300 yrs of so- called subservience. 

As we have as strong a national identity now than ever in our history (probably) then I would suggest that union with rUK is NOT detrimental to our national identity or to the expression of our nationhood and it is, indeed,  a Union of equal nations . Within England there are many cities, regions with strong identities also , that don't always see eye to eye with Westminster, but they manage without calling for independence.

I would also suggest that economically, being in the Union is amazingly brilliant for Scotland and to separate ourselves economically and politically from rUK would make Brexit seem like a walk in the park, such would be the utter devastation to our economy and standard of living.

I don't agree that Scotland's 'voice' is being ignored either as Scotland has a parliament, has a Gov't and has a First Minister. If the FM is shit at her job because she can't engage with rUK without playing to the gallery then maybe she is the wrong person for the job.

You've just equated Scotland with English regions.

[Antlion]

53 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

You might think Scotland is a minor region but that's your inferiority complex coming out. It  discolours your every thought and deed.

Personally, I think Scotland is a country with a very strong identity, culture and a proud place in the world both now and historically.

The country's political identity has  far less bearing on it's unique identity ( i.e Scottishness) or it's citizens identity than you want us to believe. If it did then we would be just like the English after 300 yrs of so- called subservience. 

As we have as strong a national identity now than ever in our history (probably) then I would suggest that union with rUK is NOT detrimental to our national identity or to the expression of our nationhood and it is, indeed,  a Union of equal nations . Within England there are many cities, regions with strong identities also , that don't always see eye to eye with Westminster, but they manage without calling for independence.

I would also suggest that economically, being in the Union is amazingly brilliant for Scotland and to separate ourselves economically and politically from rUK would make Brexit seem like a walk in the park, such would be the utter devastation to our economy and standard of living.

I don't agree that Scotland's 'voice' is being ignored either as Scotland has a parliament, has a Gov't and has a First Minister. If the FM is shit at her job because she can't engage with rUK without playing to the gallery then maybe she is the wrong person for the job.

Again: if Scotland, which has 10% of the UK electorate and depends upon the other 90% to make supranational decisions and choose its parliaments, is not a minor region of the state, what is it? You claim that Scotland as a country isn't being ignored because it has a parliament. Would you accept the UK having the same legal jurisdiction and power as Holyrood? If the answer is no, you're a servile BritNat.

You claim it is a "country". If you truly believe that, then why do you not think it deserves the same rights and powers as other internationally-recognised countries, such as France, Ireland, or even the UK? Bear in mind you cannot say it can't afford these things, as you also claim that being absorbed within the UK state for three centuries has been "amazingly brilliant" - ergo we must be absolutely swimming in spare cash and reserves. If we're not, you're a servile liar who knows that the UK has, at least in recent decades, been extraordinarily bad for Scotland.

The fact that you have likened Scotland the country to a city or region of England pretty much makes your entire waffle apt for dismissal, of course. Scottish cringe at its cringiest. "Why can't we just shut up and accept being like Cornwall, guys?" 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Antlion

[McSpreader]

27 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Again: if Scotland, which has 10% of the UK electorate and depends upon the other 90% to make supranational decisions and choose its parliaments, is not a minor region of the state, what is it? You claim that Scotland as a country isn't being ignored because it has a parliament. Would you accept the UK having the same legal jurisdiction and power as Holyrood? If the answer is no, you're a servile BritNat.

You claim it is a "country". If you truly believe that, then why do you not think it deserves the same rights and powers as other internationally-recognised countries, such as France, Ireland, or even the UK? Bear in mind you cannot say it can't afford these things, as you also claim that being absorbed within the UK state for three centuries has been "amazingly brilliant" - ergo we must be absolutely swimming in spare cash and reserves. If we're not, you're a servile liar who knows that the UK has, at least in recent decades, been extraordinarily bad for Scotland.

The fact that you have likened Scotland the country to a city or region of England pretty much makes your entire waffle apt for dismissal, of course. Scottish cringe at its cringiest. "Why can't we just shut up and accept being like Cornwall, guys?" 

I guess I'm not as easily offended as you by all things English. As I said We are Scottish and nothing about being part of the UK makes us any less so . I even doubt the concept of a 'Scottish voice' . We are all individuals and have individual ideas, thoughts and opinions. Except for sheeple such as yourself, perhaps. So my voice is my own and I am not to be lumped together with 5 million other people, most of whom I don't know, have never met and probably wouldn't like very much, simply because they were born, or reside within a certain set of geographical co-ordinates.

Therefore I see nothing to be gained from independence other than satisfying Nicola Sturgeon's vainglorious political ambitions . And of course to give succour and validity to the eternally anti -British sentiments of Irish Nationalists s who have never had anything other than the worst of intentions to the United Kingdom and who are using Scottish Independence to further this anti-UK agenda.

It may gripe you to know that I'm happy to be in Union with England... The English ( and Welsh ) are my ally of choice..Nothing to do with servility or any of that other strange, unsubstantiated language of hate you are prone to using. I also disagree being in the UK has been bad for Scotland. Quite the opposite. We would be up shit creek without a paddle outwith the UK.

I would say we have done a lot worse and had a lot less investment since the SNP have been in charge.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I would show no emotion watching you buggered...... by a bull elephant

I doubt that

Not even surprise, in a 'well there's something you don't see every day' kind of way?

[John Lambies Doos]

Unionists constantly arguing against Scotland making its own decisions. It's unbelievable, somewhat sickening tbh. Spineless shitebaggery in its worst form

[Dingus son of Dork]

Irish Nationalists using Scottish independence to further their agenda? I would ask for proof but this is the ramblings of a man in a Union Jack suit and a tin foil hat. As well as someone who clearly identifies as a BritNat.

If we are doing worse under devolution, can you explain why infrastructure projects that were talked about DECADES before devolution such as the Aberdeen bypass, Forth Crossing, Borders Railway and A9 dueling are being completed under the SNP?

[Antlion]

20 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I guess I'm not as easily offended as you by all things English. As I said We are Scottish and nothing about being part of the UK makes us any less so . I even doubt the concept of a 'Scottish voice' . We are all individuals and have individual ideas, thoughts and opinions. Except for sheeple such as yourself, perhaps. So my voice is my own and I am not to be lumped together with 5 million other people, most of whom I don't know, have never met and probably wouldn't like very much, simply because they were born, or reside within a certain set of geographical co-ordinates.

Therefore I see nothing to be gained from independence other than satisfying Nicola Sturgeon's vainglorious political ambitions . And of course to give succour and validity to the eternally anti -British sentiments of Irish Nationalists s who have never had anything other than the worst of intentions to the United Kingdom and who are using Scottish Independence to further this anti-UK agenda.

It may gripe you to know that I'm happy to be in Union with England... The English ( and Welsh ) are my ally of choice..Nothing to do with servility or any of that other strange, unsubstantiated language of hate you are prone to using. I also disagree being in the UK has been bad for Scotland. Quite the opposite. We would be up shit creek without a paddle outwith the UK.

I would say we have done a lot worse and had a lot less investment since the SNP have been in charge.

No, you're only offended by all things non-British. It's the thought of anyone sullied by the taint of non-Britishness that appears to provoke your disgust. European nations don't even have to choose the UK's sovereign governments for it and yet you can't stomach being in union with them. And all to satisfy the vainglorious ambitions of bottom-feeding xenophobes like Messrs Farage, Gove and Fox...

[WILLIEA]

5 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Unionists constantly arguing against Scotland making its own decisions. It's unbelievable, somewhat sickening tbh. Spineless shitebaggery in its worst form

You can't really argue against Scotland doing that whilst at the same time arguing to leave the EU in order to " take back control "

To do so requires a really peculiar kind of mental gymnastics.

[Antlion]

20 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I guess I'm not as easily offended as you by all things English. As I said We are Scottish and nothing about being part of the UK makes us any less so . I even doubt the concept of a 'Scottish voice' . We are all individuals and have individual ideas, thoughts and opinions. Except for sheeple such as yourself, perhaps. So my voice is my own and I am not to be lumped together with 5 million other people, most of whom I don't know, have never met and probably wouldn't like very much, simply because they were born, or reside within a certain set of geographical co-ordinates.

Therefore I see nothing to be gained from independence other than satisfying Nicola Sturgeon's vainglorious political ambitions . And of course to give succour and validity to the eternally anti -British sentiments of Irish Nationalists s who have never had anything other than the worst of intentions to the United Kingdom and who are using Scottish Independence to further this anti-UK agenda.

It may gripe you to know that I'm happy to be in Union with England... The English ( and Welsh ) are my ally of choice..Nothing to do with servility or any of that other strange, unsubstantiated language of hate you are prone to using. I also disagree being in the UK has been bad for Scotland. Quite the opposite. We would be up shit creek without a paddle outwith the UK.

I would say we have done a lot worse and had a lot less investment since the SNP have been in charge.

No, you're only offended by all things non-British. It's the thought of anyone sullied by the taint of non-Britishness that appears to provoke your disgust. European nations don't even have to choose the UK's sovereign governments for it and yet you can't stomach being in union with them. And all to satisfy the vainglorious ambitions of bottom-feeding xenophobes like Messrs Farage, Gove and Fox...

[Peppino Impastato]

Mcspreader isn't Scottish btw,  and has posted racist diatribes against scots in the past.  Not that being Scottish is necessary to have an opinion if you live here,  but he is now pretending to be Scottish to legitimise his opposition to Scottish sovereignty.   Just so everyone knows,  read his last post, he's literally pretending to be Scottish now just like hb. 

[McSpreader]

14 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Mcspreader isn't Scottish btw,  and has posted racist diatribes against scots in the past.  Not that being Scottish is necessary to have an opinion if you live here,  but he is now pretending to be Scottish to legitimise his opposition to Scottish sovereignty.   Just so everyone knows,  read his last post, he's literally pretending to be Scottish now just like hb. 

I'm Scottish .....or I'm not Scottish. If that matters to you then you're a racist. If not, then I'd be interested to know how you describe yourself 

I'd love to see these racist diatribes against Scots........can't wait for that !

Obviously you think that Scottish born are more legitimate. The exclusivity of Nationalism.......Adolf would have been so proud of you !

Nationalism is a dangerous and divisive philosophy. It's the natural home of cowards and bullies.

[Gordon EF]

Tbf, Scottish or not, the guy's a moron.

[Peppino Impastato]

I don't care if you're Scottish,  only if you pretend to be as you are doing.   You are the one that obviously thinks nationality is important since you feel the need to do that. 

[Peppino Impastato]

 

Mcspreader state she is Welsh.   Now he says he's Scottish. s

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Peppino Impastato

[Peppino Impastato]

I don't care if you're Welsh if you live here permanently you have a right to an opinion,  I care about why you're now lying and pretending to be Scottish. 

[Antlion]

8 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I'm Scottish .....or I'm not Scottish. If that matters to you then you're a racist. If not, then I'd be interested to know how you describe yourself 

I'd love to see these racist diatribes against Scots........can't wait for that !

Obviously you think that Scottish born are more legitimate. The exclusivity of Nationalism.......Adolf would have been so proud of you !

Nationalism is a dangerous and divisive philosophy. It's the natural home of cowards and bullies.

Says the staunch UK nationalist who wants the UK divided from the European Union.

[McSpreader]

3 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Tbf, Scottish or not, the guy's a moron.

 

4 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

I don't care if you're Scottish,  only if you pretend to be as you are doing.   You are the one that obviously thinks nationality is important since you feel the need to do that. 

Tbh what you think really isn't important to me. You can think me any nationality you like if it helps you feel better about yerself

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I'm Scottish .....or I'm not Scottish. If that matters to you then you're a racist. If not, then I'd be interested to know how you describe yourself 

I'd love to see these racist diatribes against Scots........can't wait for that !

Obviously you think that Scottish born are more legitimate. The exclusivity of Nationalism.......Adolf would have been so proud of you !

Nationalism is a dangerous and divisive philosophy. It's the natural home of cowards and bullies.

I have brought this up before, but why on earth would you think McSpreader was a remotely witty name if you were Scottish?

[Peppino Impastato]

It's actually deriding Scotstoun that's why he chose it, same as unionists who go on about haggis and tartan and shortbread when slagging yes voters.