McSpreader Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Black and White Tragic said: There you are attempting to belittle my research. I don't struggle with alternate points of view, if they can be backed up with facts and are not just fluffy strap lines. I am here to be convinced, totally open to reasoned debate. It angers me that Theresa May is denying a mandate from a manifesto commitment, duly voted and delivered by the Scottish Government. It's okay for the Torys to allow England to take back control, but not Scotland. That's a narrative that doesn't hold water. Scotland has not been denied a 2nd ref , but they have been told to wait until after Brexit. I, and many others, believe that to be perfectly reasonable. If I'm to vote on leaving the Union I want to know the new deal the Union has with the EU before I vote on it. That is most reasonable. Theresa May is the UK PM not an English PM and has been given a mandate to invoke Article 50 by dint of the EU referendum result. Sturgeon is trying to 'trump' the result of the 2014 indy ref by invoking some obscure pargraph in her manifesto that was probably read through by about 1% of the Scottish electorate despite saying before the 2015 holyrood election that it was once in a lifetime.....she has conned people . 3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Being a pedant but Cnut was proving he wasn't a God. 'Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings, for there is none worthy of the name, but He whom heaven, earth, and sea obey by eternal laws.' Ok...I thought that was after he was proven wrong....my memory not up to speed on this subject. Great quote by the great man,tho' Edited March 30, 2017 by McSpreader 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black and White Tragic Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Ok...I thought that was after he was proven wrong....my memory not up to speed on this subject. Great quote by the great man,tho' I have to take issue with the once in a generation stuff. It's been twisted into a promise. It was patently an observation that no one had had an independence referendum in their lifetime hence the possibility we may never see another opportunity. The Brexit decision obviously changes that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 We don't need to wait till after brexit to find out what the deal will be. It's really quite simple stuff this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar Army Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 If I'm to vote on leaving the European Union I want to know the new deal the European Union has with the UK before I vote on it. That is most reasonable. Fixed that for ya 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Sugar Army said: If I'm to vote on leaving the European Union I want to know the new deal the European Union has with the UK before I vote on it. That is most reasonable. Fixed that for ya You've fixed nothing. I've already voted to leave the European Union and I'm happy about that.......very happy. If I'm to be asked to consider leaving the Union Then I want to know the outcome of the Brexit negotiations because if the EU act like a bunch of c***s I definitely will not be voting to rejoin them in an IndyScotland. I'll stick with the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 8 hours ago, madwullie said: We don't need to wait till after brexit to find out what the deal will be. It's really quite simple stuff this. Maybe, but not a single prediction by anyone has been correct as yet. A bird in the hand and all that so I prefer to wait until the Brexit deal is complete before second guessing the outcome and making important decisions . It's not good, but we are all on pause for two years! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Do you wait in the middle of the road to see how hard the oncoming bus is going to hit you or do you jump out of the way first? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, McSpreader said: You've fixed nothing. I've already voted to leave the European Union and I'm happy about that.......very happy. If I'm to be asked to consider leaving the Union Then I want to know the outcome of the Brexit negotiations because if the EU act like a bunch of c***s I definitely will not be voting to rejoin them in an IndyScotland. I'll stick with the UK. We'll know if the EU are acting like a "bunch of c***s" before the brexit negotiations have concluded. No reason why Scotland shouldn't be granted Indyref2 while still in the EU. The Tory Govt are certainly acting like a bunch of c***s right now. What happened to that statement that Article 50 wouldn't be triggered without the agreement of the devolved assemblies? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 9 hours ago, McSpreader said: ...my memory not up to speed on this subject. You should put that on your sig and save everyone a lot of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 13 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said: That's some top trolling with the photo, wee hint of a saltire in the background, g&t on the case, fabulous. Must the only woman in Scotland who isn't in her jammies and a vest 2 seconds after walking through the front door. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 11 hours ago, McSpreader said: Scotland could benefit so much more from this Union if it's representaives in Holyrood actually did the job they were elected to do. i..e. do the best job for the people of Scotland. Unfortunately their obsession with Independence stops them doing that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ned Nederlander said: That was the exchange I heard yesterday. Awesome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 While doon sooth, nobody ever mentions the day job being fucked over by brexit as the NHS crumbles, prisons riot, Liss Truss is ridiculed by the judiciary and Amber Rudd can't make a statement without giving away the fact she knows absolutely nothing about anything other than how to be a bit racist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happysouth Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Why can't I see any of Baxter parps posts? I'm mean I can see there is a post there but it's just blank. It happens with a couple of other posters as well. I'm on the app. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 1 minute ago, happysouth said: Why can't I see any of Baxter parps posts? I'm mean I can see there is a post there but it's just blank. It happens with a couple of other posters as well. I'm on the app. You need to pay for premium membership, please send me your bank details and mothers maiden name and I will sort it out for you Or, on mobile embedded things like tweets as above don't show. Here's the text from Baxter. Gareth Quinn @GarethBQuinn 1h1 hour ago New Survation poll asks who should decide if there should be a #ScotRef? Excluding DKs = Holyrood - 61% Westminster - 39% 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happysouth Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 You need to pay for premium membership, please send me your bank details and mothers maiden name and I will sort it out for you [emoji6] Or, on mobile embedded things like tweets as above don't show. Here's the text from Baxter. Gareth Quinn @GarethBQuinn 1h1 hour ago New Survation poll asks who should decide if there should be a #ScotRef? Excluding DKs = Holyrood - 61% Westminster - 39% Thanks for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Maybe I'll just post the text in future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 You need to pay for premium membership, please send me your bank details and mothers maiden name and I will sort it out for you [emoji6] Or, on mobile embedded things like tweets as above don't show. Here's the text from Baxter. Gareth Quinn @GarethBQuinn 1h1 hour ago New Survation poll asks who should decide if there should be a #ScotRef? Excluding DKs = Holyrood - 61% Westminster - 39% 39% minters 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black and White Tragic Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 You've fixed nothing. I've already voted to leave the European Union and I'm happy about that.......very happy. If I'm to be asked to consider leaving the Union Then I want to know the outcome of the Brexit negotiations because if the EU act like a bunch of c***s I definitely will not be voting to rejoin them in an IndyScotland. I'll stick with the UK. So you'll be voting remain in indyref2 no matter what the outcome of #Brexit is. As far as you're concerned there is no reason to hold fire on your vote.If EU play hardball you will be remain (you said stick with the UK)If EU offer a good exit deal you'll be happy to remain in U.K. as you'll see no need to leave for a better one?Your argument about awaiting conclusion of negotiations is therefore disingenuous.I am happy to wait for most of the detail in the settlement. There has been some good news today from Tusk in that he isn't looking for punitive measures. We shall see.Biggest issue is how the UK government are going about this so far. Using foreign nationals as pawns. Not involving devolved administrations despite saying they would. Not setting a clear path on how they'll ratify the deal. First off they weren't even going to put it before Parliament. I'm very sceptical about how they are going about this. I wouldn't be surprised if the uk negotiating team rub up their EU counterparts the wrong way and end up with the hard Brexit anyway.One thing that really irritates me is how political commentators extrapolate what deal those who voted for Brexit are looking for. It was a binary question. It had no detail of why people voted to leave. You can speculate it was about the money going to Brussels (£350m on the side of a bus), immigration, EU laws such as human rights (a favourite subject of the Daily Mail) which the UK was heavily involved in writing and will more than likely adopt so the taking back control is a bit of a misnomer, the control of fishing rights which may be used as a negotiating tool etc. The fairest way would be a second referendum to ratify whatever deal is offered, at least then there would be an informed choice about what Brexit REALLY means. This should have been set out by the Torys BEFORE their first referendum but Cameron was super confident it would be a remain and therefore didn't have the foresight to do this. This will not happen due to potential for civil unrest if the soft leavers then realise that actually remaining in EU is better than the exit deal. It was obvious immediately following the result, that there were a significant number who had voted leave in protest at what they perceived as EU representing big business globalisation due to some of the ramblings of Farage about this being about the man in the street, and that they regretted it. For a vote which was only won by 2 in 100 being swayed leave I am sure that there was a higher percentage didn't understand the full implications of leave given leave campaign only really dealt in straplines and no detail. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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