The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[IrishBhoy]

1 hour ago, House Bartender said:

Back to Terrible Journalism (or paranoia). I've just become aware that "The Herald"  has a "Chief Rangers Reporter" and a complementary "Chief Celtic Reporter". Which means that there must be Junior Rangers/Celtic Reporters too.  Jings. There may be a Chief Partick/County/Hamilton/United/Diddies Reporter as well - somehow I doubt it. 

This is the paper that changed its name from "The Glasgow Herald"  to demonstrate that it was a all-Scotland serious broadsheet. Aye, right. A parochial paper that described AVFTT as "a sideways look at football" without seeing that their paper presents a tunnel-vision view of our game.  

In The Heralds defence, at least they are open about their Old Firm leanings. Every other mainstream branch of media that covers Scottish football is the same, some try to act like they care about the rest of the teams, and some don’t. BBC Sportsound devotes over half of their airtime to Rangers/Celtic, even on nights when they are broadcasting commentary from a match between two non-OF teams. Sportscene becomes 30 minutes longer after an Old Firm weekend, and on a normal weekend a run of the mill home win for either of the OF will take precedence over more exciting games involving other teams.  

Worst of the lot is Sky Sports, who barely pretend to care about 10 of the teams in the Scottish Premiership. Between live games and the Sky Sports News channel, their propaganda in favour of the OF would put Goebbels to shame. I wouldn’t blame anyone who’s only experience of Scottish football has been through Sky Sports to think there was only 2 teams that matter in Scotland, because that’s the exact vibe Sky give off at every turn.

[House Bartender]

8 hours ago, G51 said:

i think it’s quite normal for local papers to have someone covering the big football teams from that city isn’t it

That's true, but this ain't the P&J, Courier or Evening Times. This is a paper that proclaims it's 'National' credentials and even changed it's name accordingly - they shout "We are not a local newspaper!". They do not represent Scottish football - hence the Sports supplement now heads straight to the bin unread. A fine example being last year when Celtic played Ross County. Over a page of Celtic coverage, a single column on their opponents, which comprised Lennon's opinions about County and their management. This constitutes bad journalism, see this thread's title.

It's been pointed out that the BBC and Sky are as bad, if not worse (I'd go with the latter) but that does not excuse any of the three alienating much of their intended audience/readership.

[G51]

3 minutes ago, House Bartender said:

That's true, but this ain't the P&J, Courier or Evening Times. This is a paper that proclaims it's 'National' credentials and even changed it's name accordingly - they shout "We are not a local newspaper!". They do not represent Scottish football - hence the Sports supplement now heads straight to the bin unread. A fine example being last year when Celtic played Ross County. Over a page of Celtic coverage, a single column on their opponents, which comprised Lennon's opinions about County and their management. This constitutes bad journalism, see this thread's title.

It's been pointed out that the BBC and Sky are as bad, if not worse (I'd go with the latter) but that does not excuse any of the three alienating much of their intended audience/readership.

it is the evening times though - the Rangers and Celtic correspondents are ET (or GT as it should be called now) writers who’s stuff goes in the Herald too because they’re all owned by the one company, which allows the owners to save costs.

[Dons_1988]

Sky sports coverage is embarrassing but you can hardly blame them. The SPFL essentially begging them for broadcast money every few years allows them to promote the Scottish game in anyway they see fit. That means tapping into the market of OF fans that can’t attend games and the minority English market that take an interest in the old firm. 

It’s just a numbers game from them and they don’t get anything from promoting the likes of st Johnstone v Aberdeen in the same way. 

The bbc are the ones who deserve the real ire of the non-OF Scottish public. 

[IrishBhoy]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Sky sports coverage is embarrassing but you can hardly blame them. The SPFL essentially begging them for broadcast money every few years allows them to promote the Scottish game in anyway they see fit. That means tapping into the market of OF fans that can’t attend games and the minority English market that take an interest in the old firm. 

It’s just a numbers game from them and they don’t get anything from promoting the likes of st Johnstone v Aberdeen in the same way. 

The bbc are the ones who deserve the real ire of the non-OF Scottish public. 

Would it be acceptable to any other league to have their sole broadcaster focus almost all of their coverage towards 2 teams. Every league in Europe has their historically ‘big’ teams, but it seems unique to Scotland where the OF command 90% of the media coverage, when there is roughly 50% of the football going public who support a non-OF team. I get that the Old Firm are the main draw, that can’t be argued, but you can meet somewhere in the middle. To anyone outside of Scottish football, Sky’s coverage does nothing but devalue the league as a whole. It’s no wonder some of the media in England think the Premiership is just Celtic, Rangers and 10 pub teams, because that’s how Sky market it. It seems the SPFL are happy to go into negotiations with broadcasters and basically say ‘we have the Old Firm, how much money do you want to give us?’.
 

BT Sport and Premier show the Italian, French and German football, but it’s not PSG, Bayern and Juventus on every week, all of the teams get televised a fair amount, and yes, over the course of a season those bigger teams will probably be shown more, but not anything like the way Sky handle Scottish football where it’s Diddy v OF almost every week. I don’t think it’s too much of an ask to say Sky should be showing Aberdeen v Hibs, Dundee United v Motherwell etc. once every few weeks. 

[DiegoDiego]

Every league in Europe has their historically ‘big’ teams, but it seems unique to Scotland where the OF command 90% of the media coverage, when there is roughly 50% of the football going public who support a non-OF team.

It's really not.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Are there not newspapers in Spain literally only covering one team?

[Jacky1990]

35 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

BT Sport and Premier show the Italian, French and German football, but it’s not PSG, Bayern and Juventus on every week, all of the teams get televised a fair amount, and yes, over the course of a season those bigger teams will probably be shown more, but not anything like the way Sky handle Scottish football where it’s Diddy v OF almost every week. I don’t think it’s too much of an ask to say Sky should be showing Aberdeen v Hibs, Dundee United v Motherwell etc. once every few weeks. 

Got to disagree with you there.

Only have BT, but on any given weekend Id be quite confident of looking at the weekend's live games and see both PSG and Bayern's games. Wouldnt you know it, both teams are live on BT this very weekend, as they are most weekends.

The long and short of it is that these bigger clubs attract a bigger viewership both inside and outside of their own country. I certainly would be more tempted with Bayern v whoever rather that, say, Hoffenheim v Mainz.

Its obviously shite from a diddy fans perspective where I would love to see more non Old Firm games on the telly. But TV companies only care about money and viewership, so the Old Firm will continue to get the vast majority of games as they are, unfortunately, the bigger draw. They arent going to televise a game they actively know will have less people watching.

But its far from unique to Scottish football. Its the main consistent across all televised leagues.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Jacky1990

[Dons_1988]

48 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

Would it be acceptable to any other league to have their sole broadcaster focus almost all of their coverage towards 2 teams. Every league in Europe has their historically ‘big’ teams, but it seems unique to Scotland where the OF command 90% of the media coverage, when there is roughly 50% of the football going public who support a non-OF team. I get that the Old Firm are the main draw, that can’t be argued, but you can meet somewhere in the middle. To anyone outside of Scottish football, Sky’s coverage does nothing but devalue the league as a whole. It’s no wonder some of the media in England think the Premiership is just Celtic, Rangers and 10 pub teams, because that’s how Sky market it. It seems the SPFL are happy to go into negotiations with broadcasters and basically say ‘we have the Old Firm, how much money do you want to give us?’.
 

BT Sport and Premier show the Italian, French and German football, but it’s not PSG, Bayern and Juventus on every week, all of the teams get televised a fair amount, and yes, over the course of a season those bigger teams will probably be shown more, but not anything like the way Sky handle Scottish football where it’s Diddy v OF almost every week. I don’t think it’s too much of an ask to say Sky should be showing Aberdeen v Hibs, Dundee United v Motherwell etc. once every few weeks. 

I don’t really disagree with you. It’s shite output and for that reason I don’t subscribe to sky sports. But ultimately there is nothing to challenge that coverage. If the SPFL went to them and said ‘sorry lads we want better coverage of all teams and an all round promotion of the Scottish game’ sky would say if that’s what you want then we’ll pay half, or we’ll just not bother with it at all. The SPFL would subsequently melt. 

Sky don’t have an obligation to Scottish football and fans of Non OF clubs in Scotland are simply not their target demographic. 

[DukDukGoose]

23 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

Got to disagree with you there.

Only have BT, but on any given weekend Id be quite confident of looking at the weekend's live games and see both PSG and Bayern's games. Wouldnt you know it, both teams are live on BT this very weekend, as they are most weekends.

The long and short of it is that these bigger clubs attract a bigger viewership both inside and outside of their own country. I certainly would be more tempted with Bayern v whoever rather that, say, Hoffenheim v Mainz.

Its obviously shite from a diddy fans perspective where I would love to see more non Old Firm games on the telly. But TV companies only care about money and viewership, so the Old Firm will continue to get the vast majority of games as they are, unfortunately, the bigger draw. They arent going to televise a game they actively know will have less people watching.

But its far from unique to Scottish football. Its the main consistent across all televised leagues.

To me it's not so much what they show. It's how they show it.

A non OF game on sky usually get's 15-30 mins build up. Crystal Palace v West Brom will get an OF style build up. We're essentially telling the world only 2 teams really matter in the league.

[resk]

4 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

To me it's not so much what they show. It's how they show it.

A non OF game on sky usually get's 15-30 mins build up. Crystal Palace v West Brom will get an OF style build up. We're essentially telling the world only 2 teams really matter in the league.

Nah, that doesn't bother me.  Can't be hooped watching the bit of the program before kick off - just a bunch of arseholes speaking shite.    

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, resk said:

Nah, that doesn't bother me.  Can't be hooped watching the bit of the program before kick off - just kris Boyd speaking shite.    

 

[DukDukGoose]

13 minutes ago, resk said:

Nah, that doesn't bother me.  Can't be hooped watching the bit of the program before kick off - just a bunch of arseholes speaking shite.    

Doesn't bother you and that's fair enough.

Makes us look tinpot compared to the game down the road that is broadcast on the same channel immediately after our game.

[Jacky1990]

7 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Doesn't bother you and that's fair enough.

Makes us look tinpot compared to the game down the road that is broadcast on the same channel immediately after our game.

Thats the thing though. We shouldnt constently compare ourselves to the EPL.

Sky is essentially a vehicle for the EPL and dawned the Premier League years, trying to obliterate the history of English football before the Sky years in the process. They have their own Premier League channel ffs.

Sky see us as a foreign entity. Rather than compare ourselves to the EPL, we should compare the coverage of when they did the Spanish football. Which is similar to what we get now if memory serves me right. Real and Barca dominated the attention and analysis.

Personally, I would rather Scottish football didnt sell its history and soul to Sky in the hope of getting someone like Kris Boyd talking shite about players he doesnt really know for an extra 30 mins.

[DukDukGoose]

6 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

Thats the thing though. We shouldnt constently compare ourselves to the EPL.

Sky is essentially a vehicle for the EPL and dawned the Premier League years, trying to obliterate the history of English football before the Sky years in the process. They have their own Premier League channel ffs.

Sky see us as a foreign entity. Rather than compare ourselves to the EPL, we should compare the coverage of when they did the Spanish football. Which is similar to what we get now if memory serves me right. Real and Barca dominated the attention and analysis.

Personally, I would rather Scottish football didnt sell its history and soul to Sky in the hope of getting someone like Kris Boyd talking shite about players he doesnt really know for an extra 30 mins.

Great shout. Let's give our game minimal exposure.

[IrishBhoy]

1 hour ago, Jacky1990 said:

Got to disagree with you there.

Only have BT, but on any given weekend Id be quite confident of looking at the weekend's live games and see both PSG and Bayern's games. Wouldnt you know it, both teams are live on BT this very weekend, as they are most weekends.

The long and short of it is that these bigger clubs attract a bigger viewership both inside and outside of their own country. I certainly would be more tempted with Bayern v whoever rather that, say, Hoffenheim v Mainz.

 

They also showed Valladolid v Huesca, Stuttgart v Mainz and Torino v Fiorentina on Friday night. I take your point though, these companies work on subscriptions. Just seems that, this season especially, Sky have paid little attention to anyone but the OF. I can’t even remember them showing a game this season that didn’t involve one of them. 

[Jacky1990]

15 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Great shout. Let's give our game minimal exposure.

Thats not what i said though, is it?

I'd rather get exposure for Scottish football by showing better games. Couldnt care less about any pre match analysis by the type of wallopers they wheel in for these things.

 But if I had a choice between the way Sky and other TV channels dictate the EPL and having a deal similar to what we got with BT last year, I'd choose the latter every time.

The EPL's relationship with Sky is toxic IMO. They couldn't give less of a f**k about supporters who actually go to games. It shouldnt be blueprint for what we want for Scottish football if you ask me.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Jacky1990

[DukDukGoose]

17 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

Thats not what i said though, is it?

I'd rather get exposure for Scottish football by showing better games. Couldnt care less about any pre match analysis by the type of wallopers they wheel in for these things.

 But if I had a choice between the way Sky and other TV channels dictate the EPL and having a deal similar to what we got with BT last year, I'd choose the latter every time.

The EPL's relationship with Sky is toxic IMO. They couldn't give less of a f**k about supporters who actually go to games. It shouldnt be blueprint for what we want for Scottish football if you ask me.

We'd all love it to get exposure through better games. We'll struggle whilst teams are forced to contantly sell their best players as we're underfunded in comparison to the carnival down the road.

Any neutral watching one league then the other would see ours looks like a pub league in contrast and gives them an excuse to turn the channel. Higher viewing figures gives us a better chance of a better tv deal.

[accies1874]

Our coverage is pretty similar to Sky's English Championship coverage IMO. Mostly poor-to-mediocre pundits, near-identical graphics and stuff, only one game on most weeks.

I would say that the Championship pundits have a wider knowledge of the league and there's more variety in TV picks but it's still largely big and/or promotion-chasing clubs.

[IrishBhoy]

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Any neutral watching one league then the other would see ours looks like a pub league in contrast and gives them an excuse to turn the channel. Higher viewing figures gives us a better chance of a better tv deal.

That’s sort of the point I was trying to make earlier. I’m sure Sky would be quite happy if the profile of our league grew, it would be beneficial to them. The opposite is happening though, it’s OF TV basically. 
 

The SPFL are partly to blame as well, a blind man could have told you how Sky were going to treat Scottish football. If the SPFL told Sky they wanted Hibs, Aberdeen, Motherwell games shown a certain number of times, I doubt Sky would have walked away from the table. I get the feeling that the SPFL go into negotiations with Sky like lost little boys, happy to take anything they can get and leave with a nice pat on the head from the Sky big wigs. 

BT done a good job of showcasing ALL the teams, whilst also showing the majority of OF away games, so it is possible. BT also had the midweek Scottish football show, where they spoke with a good knowledge of all the teams, tactics etc. What do we get with Sky?  Kris Boyd and Kris Commons slevering over each other as they talk about Rangers and Celtic.