The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[Jacksgranda]

On 27/07/2023 at 15:04, Salvo Montalbano said:

 

Must be an age thing - I think of Birmingham City but that's because I first became aware of him as a manager who I later learned was a player and legend there too.

I think of them ,too, but I remember him playing for them, mostly associate him with Nottingham Forest, right enough.

He always came across as a decent sort.

[Jacksgranda]

13 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

From BBC Sport

Livingston face Ayr in Viaplay Cup last 16published at 17:26

17:26

Livingston will face Raith Rovers in the last 16 of the Viaplay Cup.

The West Lothian side, who progressed through as winners of Group C, will have home advantage for the encounter against the second-tier club.

The tie is due to be played on the weekend of 19/20 August.

 

 

 

Who are we meant to be playing?

Ayr Rovers Raith United

[2426255]

It's not Scottish Premiership related, but I hate when Journalists start giving their opinions on footballing matters especially when venturing into areas they aren't qualified to speak about. I read a Q&A on the BBC where their journalist Simon Stone was answering specific football related questions about Manchester United such as what the squad needs and what individual players bring to the team.

Tom English is another one who is horrific listening when he does it. You don't see the cameraman or groundsman being invited to give his opinion because they work in and around football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united 

[Monkey Tennis]

5 hours ago, 2426255 said:

It's not Scottish Premiership related, but I hate when Journalists start giving their opinions on footballing matters especially when venturing into areas they aren't qualified to speak about. I read a Q&A on the BBC where their journalist Simon Stone was answering specific football related questions about Manchester United such as what the squad needs and what individual players bring to the team.

Tom English is another one who is horrific listening when he does it. You don't see the cameraman or groundsman being invited to give his opinion because they work in and around football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united 

You must get furious when the rest of us, who don't generally work in or around football, give our views then.

[2426255]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You must get furious when the rest of us, who don't generally work in or around football, give our views then.

Furious is strong, The majority of the fan led opinions on football matters I end up just ignoring or occasionally ridiculing if I'm in the right mood, but sometimes non footballing people touching on football make some great contributions, the analytics community is a good example. I would prefer Journalists stick to their lane in terms of reporting, interviewing and relaying information rather than answering questions about squad management and tactics.

On here I don't mind it now, although the lack of logic, emotional reactions and shit opinions frustrated me when I first signed up. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by 2426255

[Jacky1990]

48 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Furious is strong, The majority of the fan led opinions on football matters I end up just ignoring or occasionally ridiculing if I'm in the right mood, but sometimes non footballing people touching on football make some great contributions, the analytics community is a good example. I would prefer Journalists stick to their lane in terms of reporting, interviewing and relaying information rather than answering questions about squad management and tactics.

On here I don't mind it now, although the lack of logic, emotional reactions and shit opinions frustrated me when I first signed up. 

I'd much rather an informed and experienced journalist does sufficient research to identify potential areas of weakness or shares what they've heard on the grapevine rather than some dim-witted ex-pro spouting poorly (non-existent) researched pish and stating the absolutely fucking obvious as if its some "youd only know id youd played the game" stuff.

[2426255]

21 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

I'd much rather an informed and experienced journalist does sufficient research to identify potential areas of weakness or shares what they've heard on the grapevine rather than some dim-witted ex-pro spouting poorly (non-existent) researched pish and stating the absolutely fucking obvious as if its some "youd only know id youd played the game" stuff.

Each to their own. If you're restricting my choice to that then I'd pick neither and listen to a manager who knows his business. There are a million ex professional footballers I don't care to listen to, but I would still generally put them ahead of even the most experienced journalist for their first hand experiences on footballing matters. I wouldn't go to a footballer to hear their insights into sports journalism.

I'd be interested to know what Journalists people respect the opinions of regarding footballing matters. I can't think of many, Jonathan Wilson is someone I have time for although his experience behind the scenes shadowing Guardiola was quite unique.

Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255

[Monkey Tennis]

6 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Furious is strong, The majority of the fan led opinions on football matters I end up just ignoring or occasionally ridiculing if I'm in the right mood, but sometimes non footballing people touching on football make some great contributions, the analytics community is a good example. I would prefer Journalists stick to their lane in terms of reporting, interviewing and relaying information rather than answering questions about squad management and tactics.

On here I don't mind it now, although the lack of logic, emotional reactions and shit opinions frustrated me when I first signed up. 

Are you Derek Johnstone?

The "You need to have played the game" notion is ridiculous.  As Jacky says, give me a thoughtful, industrious and articulate journalist any day, over 99% of players, ex or otherwise.

[kennie makevin]

15 hours ago, 2426255 said:

It's not Scottish Premiership related, but I hate when Journalists start giving their opinions on footballing matters especially when venturing into areas they aren't qualified to speak about. I read a Q&A on the BBC where their journalist Simon Stone was answering specific football related questions about Manchester United such as what the squad needs and what individual players bring to the team.

Tom English is another one who is horrific listening when he does it. You don't see the cameraman or groundsman being invited to give his opinion because they work in and around football.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united 

Too many people who either do or have worked "in or around football" are either thick as pigshit and almost comically incoherent/illiterate or so utterly bland and lacking in imagination that they have nothing illuminating to say in any case. Give me properly trained, literate, incisive and well informed football journalists please..(admittedly they're few and far between in Scotland).

[2426255]

6 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Give me properly trained, literate, incisive and well informed football journalists please..(admittedly they're few and far between in Scotland).

 

36 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

As Jacky says, give me a thoughtful, industrious and articulate journalist any day, over 99% of players, ex or otherwise.

Yes, that's my point and the question I asked @Jacky1990. Where are these incisive, well researched Journalists? because I haven't seen their work clearly. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255

[RandomGuy.]

Too many people who've worked in football have friends they wont criticise, so straight off the bat youre having to deal with bias within reporting. Allan Preston being an agent for half the players hes reporting on is genuinely something im surprised is allowed.

Edited August 3, 2023 by RandomGuy.

[kennie makevin]

4 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

 

Yes, that's my point and the question I asked @Jacky1990. Where are these Journalists? because I haven't seen there work clearly. 

These journalists may be rare but ex-footballers with anything interesting, coherent and intelligent to say are non-existent......those employed in the media anyway.....Derek Johnstone, Pat Bonner, Alex Rae et al, et al, et al....

Edited August 3, 2023 by kennie makevin
Edit

[2426255]

9 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

These journalists may be rare but ex-footballers with anything interesting, coherent and intelligent to say are non-existent......those employed in the media anyway.....Derek Johnstone, Pat Bonner, Alex Rae et al, et al, et al....

The apparent inability from anyone to cite any examples of these mythical journalists tells it's own story. Not one measly example. I suggested Jonathan Wilson is a good example because he worked behind the scenes with Guardiola for a year documenting his methods so I respect that and will give his articles/interviews the time of day even if the subject matter is the realm of football professionals. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255

[TheScarf]

11 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Too many people who've worked in football have friends they wont criticise, so straight off the bat youre having to deal with bias within reporting. Allan Preston being an agent for half the players hes reporting on is genuinely something im surprised is allowed.

I've thought that too.  He's effectively trying to sell his clients for personal gain in the form of agent fees.

[Dons_1988]

Or maybe it’s the case that dismissing anyone’s views based on their demographic is a bit silly. 

A well learned journalist, a reasonable fan who watches a club all of his life and experienced players clearly will all have something valuable to say about football. They will all also have gaps, the best ones will do what they can to fill them, the worst dismiss them because they know best. 

[2426255]

13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Or maybe it’s the case that dismissing anyone’s views based on their demographic is a bit silly. 

A well learned journalist, a reasonable fan who watches a club all of his life and experienced players clearly will all have something valuable to say about football. They will all also have gaps, the best ones will do what they can to fill them, the worst dismiss them because they know best. 

Which journalists do you think are well learned and have something valuable to say about football - the 'best ones' that you speak of?

Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255

[kennie makevin]

15 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Which journalists do you think are well learned and have something valuable to say about football?

Ewan Murray is one example....not afraid to call out the financial imbalance of Scottish football and doesn't suck up to the Old Firm, much to the annoyance of their fan base who rarely have to encounter the truth.

[2426255]

8 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Ewan Murray is one example....not afraid to call out the financial imbalance of Scottish football and doesn't suck up to the Old Firm, much to the annoyance of their fan base who rarely have to encounter the truth.

That's fine, thanks for the answer. My original post was with reference to footballing matters and not the off the field stuff but fair enough.

16 hours ago, 2426255 said:

It's not Scottish Premiership related, but I hate when Journalists start giving their opinions on footballing matters especially when venturing into areas they aren't qualified to speak about. I read a Q&A on the BBC where their journalist Simon Stone was answering specific football related questions about Manchester United such as what the squad needs and what individual players bring to the team.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united 

I'll add Guillem Balague to the list as he's someone I'll listen to. So that's two from me so far, but the majority in my opinion are absolute garbage and add nothing of value to a discussion about on the pitch stuff.

Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255

[Salvo Montalbano]

Wilson obviously, Tim Vickery, Olly Kay at the Times, Sam Tighe from the Bleacher Report, Michael Cox and some of the club specific reporters at the Atheltic are all worth listening to/reading IMO. Certainly more so than some random ex-pros.

[Busta Nut]

I like Tim Vickery but I often feel "he could have made that up" vibes from him.