2426255 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said: Wilson obviously, Tim Vickery, Olly Kay at the Times, Sam Tighe from the Bleacher Report, Michael Cox and some of the club specific reporters at the Atheltic are all worth listening to/reading IMO. Certainly more so than some random ex-pros. I like Michael Cox. Tim Vickery less sure about as he covers an aspect I have little to no interest in and some of the things I've heard him say were quite speculative. The other two I haven't really read so I'll have to take your word for that. For the most part I prefer to cut out the middle man (journalist) and go straight to source (manager) when trying to get an idea of on the pitch stuff. Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 38 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Which journalists do you think are well learned and have something valuable to say about football - the 'best ones' that you speak of? Spoiler Just kidding, nothing I say is in any way valuable or interesting. James Richardson would be my shout. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 8 hours ago, 2426255 said: The majority of the fan led opinions on football matters I end up just ignoring or occasionally ridiculing if I'm in the right mood, On here I don't mind it now, although the lack of logic, emotional reactions and shit opinions frustrated me when I first signed up. I am sure nobody on here has ever thought of your opinions in the same manner, no sir. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 53 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Which journalists do you think are well learned and have something valuable to say about football - the 'best ones' that you speak of? I take it that you are of the opinion that the Sports pages of newspapers should always be blank then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 I don't think there's mass demand for informed tactical analysis and proper research into players. So long as people keep clicking on "RangersCelticLiverpoolManU interested in signing GermanFrenchBrazilian striker" in preference to a piece discussing whether a back three is compatible with overloading wide areas in attack, then we'll get journos who write short words in crayon for morons. Whether these are ex pros or seasoned hacks makes little difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 47 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Which journalists do you think are well learned and have something valuable to say about football - the 'best ones' that you speak of? Barney Ronay of the Guardian, and his writing is not confined to football. He often takes on subject matter which is difficult and controversial - the hypocrisy of Jordan Henderson and racism in cricket are two examples. On the subject of ex-players migrating into journalism, it used to annoy me greatly that Pat Nevin was regarded as some sort of towering intellectual outlier because he visited galleries, read books with no pictures and liked indie music. It was patronising to both Nevin and football supporters and appeared almost to confirm that football had to be dumbed down to retain it's working class status. Utter pish and why we get landed with language-manglers like Derek Ferguson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, kingjoey said: I take it that you are of the opinion that the Sports pages of newspapers should always be blank then? Less opinion from journalists and more reporting of facts/events would be preferable is my point. Same when a commentator starts giving out opinions about overloads or adopting a high press it makes me want to push the mute button. Likewise when a journalist starts giving opinions on that. There's a degree of resistance to what I'm saying which I find a bit surprising in all honesty. Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, kennie makevin said: Ewan Murray is one example....not afraid to call out the financial imbalance of Scottish football and doesn't suck up to the Old Firm, much to the annoyance of their fan base who rarely have to encounter the truth. He just sucks up to Ann Budge and Hearts instead. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: Which journalists do you think are well learned and have something valuable to say about football - the 'best ones' that you speak of? Biased as he’s an Aberdeen fan but JJ Bull with the athletic is excellent when covering Aberdeen or anyone else really. Others have been mentioned. I don’t include Ewan Murray in that. I find him quite tabloidy, even if it isn’t the traditional pro old firm stance. What I hate is journalists (hiya Tom English) who confuse being able to write an article with football knowledge and dismiss ‘fans’ views because they are slightly more articulate than the hand picked idiots that appear on their mediums. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Biased as he’s an Aberdeen fan but JJ Bull with the athletic is excellent when covering Aberdeen or anyone else really. Others have been mentioned. I don’t include Ewan Murray in that. I find him quite tabloidy, even if it isn’t the traditional pro old firm stance. What I hate is journalists (hiya Tom English) who confuse being able to write an article with football knowledge and dismiss ‘fans’ views because they are slightly more articulate than the hand picked idiots that appear on their mediums. I don't really like JJ Bull to be honest just in terms of style (too nerdy) rather than content. The Tifo football stuff is generally really good, but JJ Bull puts me off watching the Tifo IRL stuff. I quite like the Jon Mackenzie fella though and the original narrator Joe Devine was hilarious. Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I don't really like JJ Bull to be honest just in terms of style (too nerdy) instead of content even though the Tifo football stuff is generally really good - He puts me off the Tifo IRL stuff so I tend not to watch it. I quite like the Jon Mackenzie fella though and the original narrator Joe Devine was hilarious. Take the nerdy point but unfortunately that sort of insight into a Diddy Scottish team is frighteningly rare so never really bothered me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 24 minutes ago, 2426255 said: I don't really like JJ Bull to be honest just in terms of style (too nerdy) rather than content. The Tifo football stuff is generally really good, but JJ Bull puts me off watching the Tifo IRL stuff. I quite like the Jon Mackenzie fella though and the original narrator Joe Devine was hilarious. They're obviously complete extreme opposites but I'd much rather listen to JJ being a nerd than Si Ferry's 'banter' chat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said: They're obviously complete extreme opposites but I'd much rather listen to JJ being a nerd than Si Ferry's 'banter' chat. Yeah, I don't listen at all to Si Ferry now but his early interviews in particular with players and managers on the Open Goal series were brilliant I thought. Yes, dumb footballers - but great first hand accounts, so I'd rather watch them than JJ Bull. Si Ferry's later stuff by the time Halliday and Kevin Kyle joined the show put me off. Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennie makevin Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 2 hours ago, 2426255 said: Less opinion from journalists and more reporting of facts/events would be preferable is my point. Same when a commentator starts giving out opinions about overloads or adopting a high press it makes me want to push the mute button. Likewise when a journalist starts giving opinions on that. There's a degree of resistance to what I'm saying which I find a bit surprising in all honesty. You're in effect saying that only those who, through accident of birth, were blessed with the requisite motor skills to be gifted enough to make a living kicking a ball about are the only ones allowed an opinion on footballing matters. Quite why anyone should be surprised that such a view finds 'a degree of resistance' from people who have spent years watching, discussing and arguing about football baffles me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 23 minutes ago, kennie makevin said: You're in effect saying that only those who, through accident of birth, were blessed with the requisite motor skills to be gifted enough to make a living kicking a ball about are the only ones allowed an opinion on footballing matters. Quite why anyone should be surprised that such a view finds 'a degree of resistance' from people who have spent years watching, discussing and arguing about football baffles me. Irony being, most of them aren't blessed with the oratory skills to voice their opinions out loud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 From a Livi perspective Callum Carson has been excellent covering Livi over the years, he writes for the WL Courier and DR, and covers a lot of local football and other sports in West Lothian. Doesn't lay it on thick sucking up to Livi, gives a balanced report, and is who i go to first when looking for Livi news. Down side is he's a Wrexham and Airdrie fan, grew up in Wales before moving up here, then went to Airdrie games with his dad. Seriously though, he's a breath of fresh air reporting on local sports and not interested in the erse cheeks. Voice of reason amongst some Livi fans that get carried away on our FB page too, talks a lot of sense. If he wasn't there, that place would become an echo chamber for blinkered Livi fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, kennie makevin said: You're in effect saying that only those who, through accident of birth, were blessed with the requisite motor skills to be gifted enough to make a living kicking a ball about are the only ones allowed an opinion on footballing matters. I don't put any stock in what journalists say particularly when it comes to on the pitch stuff. If they've done professional qualifications or spent time with coaches on the training pitch then that's different. It's a free country, everyone has a right to an opinion so I don't have a problem in that regard. Just don't put any stock in it. Edited August 3, 2023 by 2426255 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Irony being, most of them aren't blessed with the oratory skills to voice their opinions out loud. That's true. It obviously does lend credibility to anyone's opinions if they've played the game at a high level. We've a tendency on here, to slag off those who played, but don't speak particularly well. Given the choice though, I'd imagine most of us would prefer to have been given the first skill set. I know I would. I think a huge issue is that so many of those who played but work in the media, do not think deeply, or communicate well. That's got a lot to do with most of them having had relatively short formal educations, as well as a culture in the game which still seems to mock research, care and articulacy. Having been good at the game may offset, but certainly doesn't completely compensate for, someone who is not analytical or good with words. It's an extreme example, but think Paul Gascoigne. The capacity to play, even exceptionally well, is not enough by itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Maybe not totally comparable, but similar: I also prefer first hand accounts of conflicts from soldiers or officers or generals rather than opinions of war correspondents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 This argument is even more futile than the one about sliced/square/Lorne sausage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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