VincentGuerin Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Urban Spaceman said: I wasn't disputing how great he was I was disputing how much of an influence he had on the club and how much other clubs wanted him. I know from conversations with people in the club at the time he was a bit of a quote / unquote "c**t" to most players and staff, Fergie tolerated him despite the narrative that followed in the years later and the legend that has formed now. Mate the narrative didn't follow 'in later years'. From your previous post I am assuming you are way too young to remember the 90s. Am I right? Because you've been wildly off the mark with two assertions in two posts. You completely incorrectly judged the power balance of European fitba in the 90s, and you're completely wrong that the narrative with Cantona came after he played. It was very much current to his career. Edited August 22, 2023 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: I misread the "in person" as "in prison" at first glance. I did that too. I used to manage and play in The Met Office reserves football team in a Saturday Berkshire league that also included the Broadmoor inmates team. Packmoor Strikers they used to be called. Played against them a few times and never lost. What an absolute fcuking surreal experience. Nothing has ever come close. Anything that could be used as a weapon had to be left behind at the reception. They even had their own covered stand for the non playing inmates to watch from. We used to get called “Filth” by the inmates and their supporters as they thought we were The Met police. They could not understand that we studied fluffy clouds rather than locked people up. One of the players we were told had been a professional with Fulham - he was inside for killing his wife after she switched off the TV as he was watching the football. He was a good player. Not as good as Cantona mind you. The football pitch is located top middle in top photo and bottom right below. Always enjoyed winning those games. The after match pints went down very quickly I can assure you. Edited August 22, 2023 by Molotov 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 47 minutes ago, Desp said: 'When judging how good a player was, it probably helps that I didn't see him play.' Sensational It was meant that its easier to see a players weaknesses when nostalgia isnt playing a part. Youll always love, and generally over rate, the players you grew up watching. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 One day Stevie May will be seen as more important to St Johnstone than Gianfranco Zola was to Chelsea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Molotov said: One day Stevie May will be seen as more important to St Johnstone than Gianfranco Zola was to Chelsea. Fortunately for RG, I’ll bring him back to earth having not watched him for st Johnstone, but extensively for Aberdeen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: It was meant that its easier to see a players weaknesses when nostalgia isnt playing a part. Youll always love, and generally over rate, the players you grew up watching. By the way your assertion that nostalgia influences peoples opinion (yes, it can) in no way justifies declaring your opinion far more valid despite not having actually formed an evidence based opinion. You also said the fact people like to watch him inflates his reputation, as if him being entertaining is an irrelevant quality in a player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Just now, Dons_1988 said: By the way your assertion that nostalgia influences peoples opinion (yes, it can) in no way justifies declaring your opinion far more valid despite not having actually formed an evidence based opinion. You also said the fact people like to watch him inflates his reputation, as if him being entertaining is an irrelevant quality in a player. Being entertaining, a maverick, makes you better when people look back on your career decades later. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Being entertaining, a maverick, makes you better when people look back on your career decades later. If people enjoyed it at the time, and still enjoy it now, then maybe it’s a quality worth valuing. I don’t know what you mean by ‘makes you better’. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Paddy Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 29 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: It was meant that its easier to see a players weaknesses when nostalgia isnt playing a part. Youll always love, and generally over rate, the players you grew up watching. Patently not. The only football available was Italian or English on the telly, and Scottish in person. Then world cups and other internationals. Cantona was ONE of a few stand outs at that time. It wasn't nostalgia,it was an appreciation of a talent at that time. All we had to compare him too was two of the best leagues in the world, and some of the best players in the world. Appreciating what he brought to games and enjoying it at the time, does not mean he is over rated. No one, then or now , is trying to claim he was a world superstar. Just a very good player we had the privilege to enjoy. Nor was he over rated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Being entertaining, a maverick, makes you better when people look back on your career decades later. If only he'd been able to back it up with some tangible success, like, maybe seven league titles in two countries, winning two doubles while scoring a goal every 2.2 league games for Man United (and the same strike rate for France), having the most assists in the Premier League twice. And the proof that he wasn't rated at the time is only finishing third in the Balon D'or and winning the PFA and FWA Player of the Year awards, Shame he was such a show-pony, really. We're lucky we've got someone who saw him play six times to put us right and disabuse us of our nostalgic fantasies. Edited August 22, 2023 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Meeker Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 I watched David Narey play centre half for my team. I also watched Steven Pressley do the same. It's not rose tinted nostalgia to know that the former was a better footballer than the latter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 While not as extreme as RG’s opinion, I feel I have somewhat of a comparable one. Paul Scholes. I grew up watching him and always thought he was class. I don’t think he was over-rated but I do think he has been over-hyped since he retired. He has been elevated to god-like status since he finished as a player because I think it became a fashionable opinion after Utd got shite. I feel this opinion far exceeds his status while playing (which was still brilliant, but just not elite as he is portrayed nowadays) IMO. Helmet on. Bash away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 48 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: If people enjoyed it at the time, and still enjoy it now, then maybe it’s a quality worth valuing. I don’t know Of course its worth something. These match winning players who do things others dont, especially foreign ones who are also "wacky" are very valuable. They also tend to become better than they are in peoples minds when looking back though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Meeker Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, AJF said: While not as extreme as RG’s opinion, I feel I have somewhat of a comparable one. Paul Scholes. I grew up watching him and always thought he was class. I don’t think he was over-rated but I do think he has been over-hyped since he retired. He has been elevated to god-like status since he finished as a player because I think it became a fashionable opinion after Utd got shite. I feel this opinion far exceeds his status while playing (which was still brilliant, but just not elite as he is portrayed nowadays) IMO. Helmet on. Bash away. I've done so much helmet bashing today I'm concerned for my eyesight thanks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Cantona was brilliant. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 minute ago, scottsdad said: Cantona was brilliant. Aided by 4 pieces of clownshoe defending, to be fair. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee egg Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 I loved Cantona at the time, but in an interview recently, Lee Sharpe did say that Cantona "gave the ball away loads of times... Robson or Bruce would come in at half-time and say 'We have to get the Frenchman off, he's giving the ball away all day long...'" On Scholes, was his reputation not massively inflated by some lavish praise from Xavi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangemouth Bairn Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 When the seagulls follow the trawler it is because they think@RandomGuy.opinion will be thrown into the sea. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molotov Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 Scholes was a tremendous player. I’d actually say he was underrated compared to the other players in that Man Utd era as he just went quietly about his business. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Molotov said: Scholes was a tremendous player. I’d actually say he was underrated compared to the other players in that Man Utd era as he just went quietly about his business. Underrated at the time, possibly slightly overrated now. Beckham - overrated at the time, underrated now (seems to be a narrative now that Beckham was garbage when he was just a level below being a top player). Cantona - magnifique 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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