eckthearab Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Ward was also meant to be playing in America but had to change plans last minute to play davis cup once Andy decided he wouldn't play 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 How will Murray not playing a Masters 1000 event he won last year harm his ranking points and world number one ambitions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 James Ward has always been terrible in the grand scheme of things. Evans is far better than him but has a stinking attitude. Then Edmund at the moment is probably a level above Evans. Think thats wee bit harsh on ward (no idea what Evans is like) his current form is clearly grim but his wins against isner n querry were absolutely fundamental in uk davis cup team progressing into world group n eventually winning the thingy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 57 minutes ago, Elixir said: How will Murray not playing a Masters 1000 event he won last year harm his ranking points and world number one ambitions? It is a rolling 12 month ranking. So he will lose 1000 points from his total while if Djokovic plays and makes the final his points tally will stay the same. Djokovic if he plays will gain whatever points he gets from the tournament and add that to the 800 or so he is currently ahead in the year end race. I don't think Djokovic will play Canada, Olympic Games and Cincinatti before the US Open. Murray played Monte Carlo so he will still have eight masters events in his tally at the end of the year. It is not a disaster, but will hurt it short term. But if Djokovic plays too much and goes out early in the US Open he will look like a genius. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 It is a rolling 12 month ranking. So he will lose 1000 points from his total while if Djokovic plays and makes the final his points tally will stay the same. Djokovic if he plays will gain whatever points he gets from the tournament and add that to the 800 or so he is currently ahead in the year end race. I don't think Djokovic will play Canada, Olympic Games and Cincinatti before the US Open. Murray played Monte Carlo so he will still have eight masters events in his tally at the end of the year. It is not a disaster, but will hurt it short term. But if Djokovic plays too much and goes out early in the US Open he will look like a genius. No idea really how rankings work....but if Murray takes another Olympic gold another davis cup n one or two more majors given the calibre of players hes had to face then hes legitimately in the tennis all time top ten list for me. Genuinely believe that if he had a tardis he would have horsed the likes of sampras n even becker back in the day. I know irs different eras etc but his ability to return his mobility and fact he doesn't have an aherm gluten free diet puts him up there with the very best 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 On holiday in Italy and the report on the Davis Cup said that the GB v Argentina marches would be played in Birmingham. Not sure if that's official or just the Gazetta dell Sport making assumptions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Murray would need to do a lot lot more to be considered top 10 of the open era never mind top 10 of all time.Lendl, Connors, McEnroe, Laver, Borg, Agassi, Sampras, Nadal, Diokovic, Emerson and Federer all eclipse him.Then you have the likes of Courier, Edberg, Becker, Wilander behind them. Murray would really need to get to eight to be classed in the top ten of the open era.Although he's certainly the greatest player never to make world number one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Is there not an argument that could be made that ability wise he is up there? Would some of those players have won as much as they did if they had to compete against three players of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic's standard like Murray? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 11 minutes ago, Elixir said: Is there not an argument that could be made that ability wise he is up there? Would some of those players have won as much as they did if they had to compete against three players of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic's standard like Murray? Ability wise there's no doubt he's up where with the best. Can you say Agassi at his peak was better than Murray? I'd highly doubt it. However, sport is very much a 'show us your medals' business, and Murray at the moment falls way short. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, TheScarf said: Ability wise there's no doubt he's up where with the best. Can you say Agassi at his peak was better than Murray? I'd highly doubt it. However, sport is very much a 'show us your medals' business, and Murray at the moment falls way short. I only really got into tennis when Murray arrived on the scene. Would also have been too young to know much about or appreciate Agassi and Sampras etc. I think it will be a bit of a tragedy if Murray doesn't win at least another three over the next few years. I'd (Kevin Keegan) love it if he really stamped his authority and had a totally dominant end to 2016 and carried it on into 2017 and won another two/three/four fairly quickly. Even if he was to only add two more in his career though, but they were the Aussie and French, it would be pretty incredible. Edited July 19, 2016 by Elixir 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 As the scarf says it's pretty much a show us your medals type of thing. Five of Agassi's Slam wins came against players beneath his ability. Murray can only dream of facing a few more surprise finalists. I would say Agassi at his best playing ability is better than Murray at his best, Agassi had a bit more finesse to ease through matches that Murray grinds with. Murray doesn't have awful lows that Agassi had at times though. I have always thought Murray would end with 4-6 slams. I am not going to change the prediction now. Djokovic and Murray are heading into their peak couple of years physically and if both can stay injury free they will surely be the greatest grand slam final rivalry in history of mens tennis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChoppeReid Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 No idea really how rankings work....but if Murray takes another Olympic gold another davis cup n one or two more majors given the calibre of players hes had to face then hes legitimately in the tennis all time top ten list for me. Genuinely believe that if he had a tardis he would have horsed the likes of sampras n even becker back in the day. I know irs different eras etc but his ability to return his mobility and fact he doesn't have an aherm gluten free diet puts him up there with the very best Not sure another Davis Cup would add anything. Not many care about it these days.Good he won it once though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'd reckon over ten matches agassi n Murray would be pretty even maybe 5 each. I'd have Murray beating sampras 8 out of ten....don't think sampras faced many players who could return like murray 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sampras faced Agassi. Agassi was a better returner than both Djokovic and Murray. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sampras faced Agassi. Agassi was a better returner than both Djokovic and Murray. Dont agree with that at all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowdenConvert Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Sampras faced Agassi. Agassi was a better returner than both Djokovic and Murray. He kind of had to be in the era of serve/volley. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Having watched a lot of videos from 99-03, which was Agassi's peak, I firmly believe the 2016 Andy Murray was as good as him. And there's no way Agassi was playing against such a high number of high calibre of opponents as Murray is right now. To make it clear, I loved watching Agassi, his style of play was a brilliant break from the boring serve and volley the likes of Sampras, Rafter, Ivanisevic and Henman gave us, which was like eye AIDS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Dogmc: it doesn't really matter if you agree with it or not. Agassi has more points won on first and second serve, and has a greater % of return games won over their careers.There isn't much between Murray and Agassi at their peaks but Murray at his peak still gets ground in to absolute battles with people like stepanek and Bourgue. Agassi was more composed than Murray and more mentally attuned.He certainly didn't have to contend with three of the greatest players to have played the game but he did have to contend with Jim Courier, Boris Becker, Stefan Edberg, Pete Sampras who are all superb tennis players.Although Murray and Djokovic are usually named as the best returners on tour Ferrer and Nadal are both better. Although with both on a downward spiral I'd expect both Murray and Djokovic to overtake them by the end of their careers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I will add however that I think Murray is just about to enter his peak now and that he has scope to improve all aspects of his career CV. He can certainly finish career better than Agassi but he still has a lot of work to do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I will add however that I think Murray is just about to enter his peak now and that he has scope to improve all aspects of his career CV. He can certainly finish career better than Agassi but he still has a lot of work to do Has he not been at his peak for a few years already? I'd had thought he was about to have 2 more years at the top before it starts to slide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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