Andy Murray The Greatest and General Tennis Chat

[Lurkst]

Mighty Matador 

 

[ScumpyJohn]

Had £1 on Nadal at 50/1 (enhanced sign up). Good lad Rafa!

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I’m not sure who I think is the GOAT out of Rafa and Djokovic (both have more to give, IMO) but I do think we can now say with confidence that Federer is 3rd of the 3. 

Did Federer not pick up a few “cheap” slams before Rafa and Djokovic were around?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Hey hey, f**k Djokovic.

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

Did Federer not pick up a few “cheap” slams before Rafa and Djokovic were around?

Exactly. Rafa and Djokovic have dominated since 2008

[Jinky67]

Medvedev is an ungracious p***k tbh, did he really just mutter boring while she was paying him compliments?

Anyway congrats Nadal well deserved, what a player.

[TheScarf]

8 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Did Federer not pick up a few “cheap” slams before Rafa and Djokovic were around?

Yes, he beat some utter nobodies. Marcos Baghdatis ffs.  Gonzalez from Chile too off the top of my head. Both in Australia. Even Robin Soderling i’d class in that group. Had a white hot year in May 09 to May 10 then disappeared without a trace. 

[Lurkst]

Good chance with Nadal's dominance on clay he'll make in 22 slams. That'd be pretty much unassailable. 

 

[Lurkst]

24 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I’m not sure who I think is the GOAT out of Rafa and Djokovic (both have more to give, IMO) but I do think we can now say with confidence that Federer is 3rd of the 3. 

Peak Federer beats both IMO, beautiful to watch.

 

[Jinky67]

4 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Good chance with Nadal's dominance on clay he'll make in 22 slams. That'd be pretty much unassailable. 

 

Djokovic is usually a stick on for Wimbledon and the US open is usually the one that’s a bit more of a lottery so 22 for Djokovic is within reach 

[Loki]

Rafa figured out Medvedev from the middle of the second set, and only his own nervousness fucked that second set.

It shows the difference in ability from Rafa’s generation to the latest, that the three top guys in this generation have lost slam finals from being two sets up.  All of them.

I can’t see Medvedev having any chances on the natural surfaces.  But if it’s any consolation this might be the last time we see anyone from This golden era win a slam on a hard court.

[Virtual Insanity]

3 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Peak Federer beats both IMO, beautiful to watch.

 

Peak Federer lost to both more often than he beat them.

Not much debate that he was the best to watch of the three aesthetically.

[Loki]

I feel the GOAT argument is a bit daft mainly as each of the big three have talents that are specifically suited to a surface.  We have 65% hard court, 25% clay and 10% grass.  If we were to switch those about to reflect each players best surface it would be a different result.

Novak’s low error game is suited to hard courts more than the others, however he can be exposed on faster courts.  Hence his record at the Australian Open and US Open differs significantly.  Think if one of the hard courts was changed to grass or clay, he’d still do okay as his low error games suits any surface that is medium or slow paced.

On Grass Federer is the best however he’s lost finals to both Nadal and Djokovic there.  Djokovic only has five due to the injuries to Murray.  If Murray never had the back or hip injuries Murray would have five.  Although changing two of the slams to grass wouldn’t really have that much affect as the years he was dominant he was also winning the hard court slams.

Clay is Nadal.  65% clay tournaments with two being clay, Nadal would have over 30 slams and none of them would be close.  In slams Nadals record against both is superior, although helped be his ability on clay.

Without Federer’s brilliance to drive Nadal, we wouldn’t have been at the level to get here.  The emergence of both Murray and Djokovic pushed that level even higher.  Without each other Nadal, Federer and Djokovic wouldn’t be as great.

Collectively they’re the greatest ever to play the sport.  No one can touch them.

[IggyStooge]

[cameron2000]

I feel the GOAT argument is a bit daft mainly as each of the big three have talents that are specifically suited to a surface.  We have 65% hard court, 25% clay and 10% grass.  If we were to switch those about to reflect each players best surface it would be a different result.
Novak’s low error game is suited to hard courts more than the others, however he can be exposed on faster courts.  Hence his record at the Australian Open and US Open differs significantly.  Think if one of the hard courts was changed to grass or clay, he’d still do okay as his low error games suits any surface that is medium or slow paced.
On Grass Federer is the best however he’s lost finals to both Nadal and Djokovic there.  Djokovic only has five due to the injuries to Murray.  If Murray never had the back or hip injuries Murray would have five.  Although changing two of the slams to grass wouldn’t really have that much affect as the years he was dominant he was also winning the hard court slams.
Clay is Nadal.  65% clay tournaments with two being clay, Nadal would have over 30 slams and none of them would be close.  In slams Nadals record against both is superior, although helped be his ability on clay.
Without Federer’s brilliance to drive Nadal, we wouldn’t have been at the level to get here.  The emergence of both Murray and Djokovic pushed that level even higher.  Without each other Nadal, Federer and Djokovic wouldn’t be as great.
Collectively they’re the greatest ever to play the sport.  No one can touch them.

Australian Open surface is faster the the US Open. The US Open Surface is higher bouncing though meaning that players have more margin for error against him.

[Loki]

21 minutes ago, cameron2000 said:

Australian Open surface is faster the the US Open. The US Open Surface is higher bouncing though meaning that players have more margin for error against him.

Stand corrected.  Certainly explains why he’s made nine finals at each but lost six US Opens.

[Left Back]

What’s the factor that makes Nadal so dominant on clay?  What’s he got or what does he do that’s different to everyone else?

[cameron2000]

What’s the factor that makes Nadal so dominant on clay?  What’s he got or what does he do that’s different to everyone else?

Clay is the bounciest surface and the hotter the conditions the more it kicks ups off the clay so the time of year is also perfect.

Nadal has the heaviest top spin forehand in the game and can generate insane kick off the surface to push opponents back and dominate points.

His biggest rivals hit much flatter in general which tends to sit up more on clay than skid through the court.

Of the next-gen, Tsitsipas and Thiem are best equipped to challenge him but he holds the slight edge still as he can expose their 1 handed backhands (like he did with Federer).

Djokovic beating Nadal twice in Paris is probably his number 1 achievement.

[Loki]

1 hour ago, cameron2000 said:

Clay is the bounciest surface and the hotter the conditions the more it kicks ups off the clay so the time of year is also perfect.

Nadal has the heaviest top spin forehand in the game and can generate insane kick off the surface to push opponents back and dominate points.

His biggest rivals hit much flatter in general which tends to sit up more on clay than skid through the court.

Of the next-gen, Tsitsipas and Thiem are best equipped to challenge him but he holds the slight edge still as he can expose their 1 handed backhands (like he did with Federer).

Djokovic beating Nadal twice in Paris is probably his number 1 achievement.

I’d green dot that twice if I could.  The only thing you could possibly add to that is everyone knows Rafa is the greatest player on clay.  Mentally they’ll always be doubts, even when ahead.  Both Federer and Djokovic have lost matches on clay that they should have seen out.

The whole net incident at the French Open in 2013, springs to mind immediately.  The third set of the French Open last year was an insane level, Djokovic had to summon the best set of his clay career just to finish Nadal off.  Nadal injured himself in the process.

I personally think the only player on tour that isn’t aware of his record on clay when playing is Fabio Fognini.  But he’s a law to himself

[John Lambies Doos]

Good chance with Nadal's dominance on clay he'll make in 22 slams. That'd be pretty much unassailable. 
 

Disagree. Djokovic could easily win Wimbledon, US and next years Oz. I still fancy Nole to finish on top of pile