welshbairn Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Independence is completely seperate to Left/Right politics, to me it is an issue that stands apart. Whilst I am not a natural supporter of the SNP, I am happy to lend my support at them moment. When we get independence then I will vote for an alternative but there is no point in splitting the independence vote IMO. My sole reason for voting for independence is that it's the best chance of getting a Socialist Government. Not quite true, it would also be fun to see how things worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's not narrow minded. Tory ideology is based on greed and self interest. To say that folk who are right wing are c***s is not narrow minded, it's to say that their believes are untenable. You're going to have to elaborate on what you mean by "greed and self-interest". Yes, I'm well aware the austerity agenda is all about trying to advance the neo-liberal agenda by punishing people who don't traditionally vote Tory, and awarding people who helped get them elected. It's a game that's played all over the world. At the same time, I don't see how it's a whole lot different from people who want handouts and then try to dress is up as being caring and compassionate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 My sole reason for voting for independence is that it's the best chance of getting a Socialist Government. Not quite true, it would also be fun to see how things worked out. I'm much the same. Except I want much more localised decision making. Ironically something the SNP are dead against which I've always found a bemusing contradiction. My hope for Indy Scotland was to get the SNP to f**k as soon as possible and start to build a new country with an actual socialist government. Ideally for me one with an environmental bent. You can but dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm much the same. Except I want much more localised decision making. Ironically something the SNP are dead against which I've always found a bemusing contradiction. My hope for Indy Scotland was to get the SNP to f**k as soon as possible and start to build a new country with an actual socialist government. Ideally for me one with an environmental bent. You can but dream. Where is your evidence that the SNP are "dead against" much more localised decision making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Where is your evidence that the SNP are "dead against" much more localised decision making? FIre service, Police service. I don't think you can really argue that this is not the case. Another area where this is obvious was in the financial settlements to LAs for freezing the council tax. It was bullying, plain and simple. Now that they can see that budgets are going to be really squeezed, they are now allowing councils to set their own rates levels. Not for fiscal benefit to the LA but to allow them to pass the buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 FIre service, Police service. I don't think you can really argue that this is not the case. Another area where this is obvious was in the financial settlements to LAs for freezing the council tax. It was bullying, plain and simple. Now that they can see that budgets are going to be really squeezed, they are now allowing councils to set their own rates levels. Not for fiscal benefit to the LA but to allow them to pass the buck. Agree to an extent with the council tax issue, but the centralising of the fire and police services was a solid move (financially and otherwise), not an ideological war on local decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Quite. I wouldn't have thought even the most ardent nonthinking SNP pull string auto defender could deny that they very much believe in central government. I can see the arguments against giving councils too much power currently. Id like to see the whole system reformed and power removed from Edinburgh to local regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Quite. I wouldn't have thought even the most ardent nonthinking SNP pull string auto defender could deny that they very much believe in central government. I can see the arguments against giving councils too much power currently. Id like to see the whole system reformed and power removed from Edinburgh to local regions. There's a difference between believing in central government and being "dead against local decision making". The cynic in me suspects that the SNP support a centralised government because a Holyrood which has a wide remit and responsibility looks more like a potential sovereign parliament than the glorified council office it was envisioned as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Really? What is the difference? Are the SNP or are they not a party which believes in centralising decision making for Scotland in Edinburgh. Here is a good article highlighting how problematic this is for people power. Written by an SNP and Yes activist incidentally, to avoid the tired defensive 'must be a Yoonyinist' rebuttal from the 'quick, to the SNP defence bus' types. https://commonspace.scot/articles/2092/paul-bassett-why-we-need-to-talk-about-centralisation-and-the-snp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Really? What is the difference? Are the SNP or are they not a party which believes in centralising decision making for Scotland in Edinburgh. Here is a good article highlighting how problematic this is for people power. Written by an SNP and Yes activist incidentally, to avoid the tired defensive 'must be a Yoonyinist' rebuttal from the 'quick, to the SNP defence bus' types. https://commonspace.scot/articles/2092/paul-bassett-why-we-need-to-talk-about-centralisation-and-the-snp Yes, I do perceive the centralization agenda as being a problem many years from now when we finally get independence. Mainly because it historically favours the richest and best connected people in society. It also makes holding people to account more difficult, and getting change tends to be much slower and harder to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotSquid Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Yes, I do perceive the centralization agenda as being a problem many years from now when we finally get independence. Mainly because it historically favours the richest and best connected people in society. It also makes holding people to account more difficult, and getting change tends to be much slower and harder to obtain. Why years from now? Its a problem now with the current Scottish government. As the author of that piece alludes to, the brilliant thing about the referendum was energising local people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I preferred the Nine Percent Growth Party that was kicking around on the Holyrood list vote a few years ago. Ambitious and up-front name, though they were probably a bunch of right-wing nutters. Quite possibly the same members as this busted flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Why years from now? Its a problem now with the current Scottish government. As the author of that piece alludes to, the brilliant thing about the referendum was energising local people. It is a problem now, but it will become even more so in the future. I don't really see any group of people taking a stand. Either, a section of the SNP will need to oppose it, or some special interest group. It's unlikely to come from any of the other rival parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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