strichener Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Hope to f**k independence doesn't happen now. My taxes will surely go through the roof when WM loses access to the oil money. I hope Lancashire have blocked internet access to P & B and then we won't have to put up with your shite trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It's not a lie to break a promise. Do tell me though, whatever happened to the SNP's promise to abolish student debt before they trebled it? Lib Dems fucked students. Note Scots students are not there. Their debt's MUCH lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 There I don't want to pay more tax Lib Dems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Am I even supposed to vote in this now that I'm leaving Scotland and moving to Lancashire a few weeks after the election? Are you moving? Tell us all about it, what will you be do...... Oh no wait, no one gives a f**k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Lib Dems fucked students. Note Scots students are not there. Their debt's MUCH lower. The debt figures aren't even remotely close to telling the full story. Low-earning Scottish graduates pay more back in student loan payments for their maintenance than English graduates earning the same amount, despite having a debt for both maintenance and tuition. I wouldn't expect nuance to be the strong point of someone who is to intellect what Viteslav Mooc was to Scottish Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The debt figures aren't even remotely close to telling the full story. Low-earning Scottish graduates pay more back in student loan payments for their maintenance than English graduates earning the same amount, despite having a debt for both maintenance and tuition. I wouldn't expect nuance to be the strong point of someone who is to intellect what Viteslav Mooc was to Scottish Football. So it's not a real debt in the sense that it will not affect your credit rating (or eligibility from a mortgage). It is recovered from you in a very similar way to income tax, and might be seen as somewhat of a time and contributions limited graduate tax. Incorrect if your loan was taken out pre 1998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The debt figures aren't even remotely close to telling the full story. Low-earning Scottish graduates pay more back in student loan payments for their maintenance than English graduates earning the same amount, despite having a debt for both maintenance and tuition. I wouldn't expect nuance to be the strong point of someone who is to intellect what Viteslav Mooc was to Scottish Football. That's your own blog mate. It's no argument for fees. Your gripe is loan terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Incorrect if your loan was taken out pre 1998 This is like someone seeing an article from 1994 saying that Raith Rovers were the holders of the Scottish League Cup and saying "Incorrect if the year is 2016". The post is about the schemes as operating in 2013, you massive fuckwit. Before 1998, England didn't have fees either. You are a fucking clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMjag Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 There I don't want to pay more tax Lib Dems. The sentiment is sound, but that is the worst thing I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 This is like someone seeing an article from 1994 saying that Raith Rovers were the holders of the Scottish League Cup and saying "Incorrect if the year is 2016". The post is about the schemes as operating in 2013, you massive fuckwit. Before 1998, England didn't have fees either. You are a fucking clown. Yet I see no mention of 2013 in your article. Only statements such as... Student debt is not real debt in the UK When quite clearly it can be. So call me all the names under the sun if you like. It doesn't change the fact your blog has an inaccuracy in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 So call me all the names under the sun if you like. It doesn't change the fact your blog has an inaccuracy in it Who really cares mate? His party's totally fucked. You can see why now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 This is like someone seeing an article from 1994 saying that Raith Rovers were the holders of the Scottish League Cup and saying "Incorrect if the year is 2016". The post is about the schemes as operating in 2013, you massive fuckwit. Before 1998, England didn't have fees either. You are a fucking clown. Nuance doesn't appear to be something that you are very good with. Scottish students repay at an earlier threshold which has nothing to do with levels of debt. Scottish students accumulate no interest whilst studying. ETA: Your career earnings examples on your blog are laugable. 22k average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 ETA: Your career earnings examples on your blog are laugable. 22k average. That is what I thought. It is all made up numbers. Why campaign on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Yet I see no mention of 2013 in your article. Then you've totally failed to read the images, which cite government and independent sources clearly stipulating the terms to relate to the years 2012-13 and 2013-14. Only statements such as... When quite clearly it can be. Anyone reading the article in its full context would know I'm not referring to people who started studying before tuition fees were introduced. Don't be a moron. So call me all the names under the sun if you like. It doesn't change the fact your blog has an inaccuracy in it It's not inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 ETA: Your career earnings examples on your blog are laugable. 22k average. Here's a wee graph I found after a quick google search on <<"career average" graduate salary uk>> It even dates from 2013, so will be comparable with Libby's figures There don't seem to be many graduates out there on career average salaries of £22,000. In addition, it looks like the majority of degree subjects lead to average salaries in excess of £28,500, the point at which (according to Libby) English loan repayments overtake Scottish loan repayments. This would lead me to suggest that Libby's figures are only correct for a small number of lower achieving graduates and are not representative of average graduates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Nuance doesn't appear to be something that you are very good with. Scottish students repay at an earlier threshold which has nothing to do with levels of debt. Scottish students accumulate no interest whilst studying. ETA: Your career earnings examples on your blog are laugable. 22k average. It has a massive effect on how much of the debt they have to repay before it is written off though. Whether or not you are charged interest on your loan, either during your studies or after it, is virtually immaterial to all but high-earning English graduates because their debt gets written off long before they repay the principal. I did not, in the blog, infer that the career average salary of a typical student was £22k. I used £22k (in 2013 money) as one of several staging posts to show how the two systems work-out in practice. The £22k illustration was to show that virtually every Scottish graduate has to pay back their maintenance loan in full, because most of them will earn more than £22k, inflation adjusted. Indeed, as I literally say in the blog: Virtually every student earning over, on average, £22kpa in Scotland will repay their loan in full. The only meaningful difference is that higher earners will pay it off a lot more quickly. By way of example, someone with 35-year salary average of about £35k in today's money will have paid off their student loan within 11-12 years. Never mind, of course that the blogpost also looks at other income trajectories, including £28.5k career average salary in today's money, which quite a lot of graduates will end up earning. That was, of course, at the time of posting, the tipping point at which the two schemes demand roughly the same amount of money in lifetime loan repayments. Except of course the threshold, which matters, means that English students can pay it off over a longer period and more of what they pay has to be paid when they're earning more than when they're earning less. A massive advantage for twenty-somethings whose repayments were £40 less per month in England than in Scotland. Never mind either that the median income in Scotland is about £26kpa, meaning that it's only higher earners in their late 30s and 40s that typically benefit from Scottish student loans hitting the end of repayments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Here's a wee graph I found after a quick google search on <<"career average" graduate salary uk>> It even dates from 2013, so will be comparable with Libby's figures There don't seem to be many graduates out there on career average salaries of £22,000. In addition, it looks like the majority of degree subjects lead to average salaries in excess of £28,500, the point at which (according to Libby) English loan repayments overtake Scottish loan repayments. This would lead me to suggest that Libby's figures are only correct for a small number of lower achieving graduates and are not representative of average graduates. 1. Strichner misrepresented the context in which the £22k figure was invoked. 2. Your graph gives no indication as to the proportion of students studying each respective field. Of course people going into high demand areas like medicine and engineering stand to pay more. This was never something the blog denied. Indeed it specifically acknowledged that: From that point onwards, it is absolutely true to say that English students at English Universities will be paying more. The peak cost under the English system will fall on earners with career average salaries at around £50k in today's prices, and they will pay about £75-80k towards the cost of their education if they took a £9kpa course. 3. Because of 2, you cannot possibly conclude that career average earnings below £28.5k in today's money is relevant only to a "small number of lower achieving graduates and not representative of average graduates." Indeed I have never even said anything to the effect that the majority of English graduates are better off. I have only said that the lowest paid were. Which is true. I would tentatively speculate, however, that the category "Arts" in your graphic, for example, has quite a lot more students than "Architecture". From that graph, it looks like the main careers with consistently and notably higher career average salaries than the 2013 tipping point are a handful of STEM subjects. We can have a debate about whether we want to be making those specific areas worse off (for what it's worth I think in an information economy there's a very good case against loading the burden onto them). But even law, business and education degrees are all floating around about that £28-30k sweet spot. Those that are paying more among those groups aren't paying much more, and certainly not tens of thousands as many attempt to imply they are by quoting fee and debt levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 stuff stuff You can get numbers. People repay these debts now. You're speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 You can get numbers. People repay these debts now. You're speculating. They're making graduate contributions now on the basis of the terms set back then. That isn't speculation. That's how student loan repayments work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 "Inane ramblings of a Sane Madman" What an absolute gimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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