Dindeleux Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 That reply indicates one of the issues with censorship for reasons of offence - whose standards do we adopt? The people who attacked Charlie Hebdo or the people who attacked the Danish cartoonist or the people who issued a fatwa to kill Salman Rushdie? If you say that there's a line of offensiveness that overrides freedom of expression, who decides where it sits? At the risk of repeating the article I linked to above, these proposed lines of offensiveness are often drawn up by those who shout the loudest. You are abolishing free speech in favour of placating people who you are never going to satisfy. It's also hugely patronising and Orientalist, if not outright racist, to say that Catholics can cope with being relentlessly mocked but Muslims cannot. There are a billion people in the world who are at least nominally Muslim - they aren't all special snowflakes, waiting to take offense at something. Free speech and the right to say outrageous, offensive, stupid things is more important than protecting people's feelings, or being seen to protect people's feelings. If you adopt provisios on it then you are going down a road to a santised society with acceptable truths and limitations on what people can write, study, believe. ETA - We also shouldn't consider Britain an oasis of freedom of speech. Blasphemy laws were only abolished here in 2009 and in 1977 the publsihed of Gay News was convicted and given a suspended prison sentence for publishing a poem about Jesus getting a blow job on the cross. You got all of that from my post? I agree with you though but I'm not sure if Billy Terrorist will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Only protecting free speech when it fits your subjective analysis of what constitutes being funny is censorship in itself. Did I think this particular cartoon was funny? No, although I made the assumption what they were really having a go at was the media's volte face regarding refugees. Should they have been allowed to publish it? 100%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Charlie Hebdo is now run from a highly secure office in a secret location. I'd imagine that there are armed police/generadmes on duty there 24/7. Yeah and the controversial French author Michel Houellebecq is also under 24hr police protection as his latest book predicts a future dystopian France under Muslim rule. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.T Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Shooting is too good for them. Is this a pun? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 From what I've seen its just lowest common denominator stuff masquerading as some sort of biting satire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Yeah and the controversial French author Michel Houellebecq is also under 24hr police protection as his latest book predicts a future dystopian France under Muslim rule. Is a future dystopian France under future rule a real possibility.? Or a future dystopian Scotland for that matter? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've never laughed once at anything they've ever done 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojito Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've never laughed once at anything they've ever done It's not really laughs that they are after though is it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banana Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It's not really laughs that they are after though is it? Bizarre the number of people who think that satire always implies humour. I heartily applaud Hebdo for not backing down and for staying provocative in the face of religion and the leftist, 'progressive' totalitarians hell bent on censorship, silencing, and controlling the narrative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 It's never really courted the belly-laugh market - it's not Le Viz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIEA Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Of the front covers of Charlie Hebdo over the past 10 years or so 70% have satirised politics, 20% business and 10% religion, 7% Christianity and only 3% Islam Those frothing at the mouth over it being anti Islamic are merely engaging in simplistic knicker wetting imo! These kinds of satirical mags have been part of French literary tradition since before the revolution. Hebdo only started in1969/70 and its first spats were with the Gaullists 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Trial of 14 people accused of helping the attackers starts today. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53975350 Three are being tried in their absence and could be dead after joining ISIS in Syria. I had thought this attack was claimed by al-Queda rather than ISIS but I must be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 That reply indicates one of the issues with censorship for reasons of offence - whose standards do we adopt? The people who attacked Charlie Hebdo or the people who attacked the Danish cartoonist or the people who issued a fatwa to kill Salman Rushdie? If you say that there's a line of offensiveness that overrides freedom of expression, who decides where it sits?At the risk of repeating the article I linked to above, these proposed lines of offensiveness are often drawn up by those who shout the loudest. You are abolishing free speech in favour of placating people who you are never going to satisfy. It's also hugely patronising and Orientalist, if not outright racist, to say that Catholics can cope with being relentlessly mocked but Muslims cannot. There are a billion people in the world who are at least nominally Muslim - they aren't all special snowflakes, waiting to take offense at something. Free speech and the right to say outrageous, offensive, stupid things is more important than protecting people's feelings, or being seen to protect people's feelings. If you adopt provisios on it then you are going down a road to a santised society with acceptable truths and limitations on what people can write, study, believe.ETA - We also shouldn't consider Britain an oasis of freedom of speech. Blasphemy laws were only abolished here in 2009 and in 1977 the publsihed of Gay News was convicted and given a suspended prison sentence for publishing a poem about Jesus getting a blow job on the cross.How do you feel the content of this post stand up 4 years later Chris? (This absolutely isnt a dig, genuinely, do you feel the exact same now? Because I reckon if someone wrote that post today they would get a bit of a hounding, and I want to know if you now think the same or a bit different) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: How do you feel the content of this post stand up 4 years later Chris? (This absolutely isnt a dig, genuinely, do you feel the exact same now? Because I reckon if someone wrote that post today they would get a bit of a hounding, and I want to know if you now think the same or a bit different) As can be seen from my posts, I fully support the freedom to say stupid, incorrect things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 As can be seen from my posts, I fully support the freedom to say stupid, incorrect things.I understand 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 This is the cartoon that kicked off the thread. I'd veer towards it being racist rather than ironic, and in pretty awful taste anyways. Obviously not worthy of a death sentence though. I see they've reprinted the Danish cartoons taking the pish out Mohammad again to mark the beginning of the trial. No comment about that but I suppose if anyone has the right, it's them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academically Deficient Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 15/01/2016 at 08:41, Hillonearth said: It's never really courted the belly-laugh market - it's not Le Viz. Avec Roger Mellie, l'homme sur le tele. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Academically Deficient said: Avec Roger Mellie, l'homme sur le tele. Until I realised the thread had been resurrected due to the trial, my first thought was tout a fait la bosse! Edited September 2, 2020 by Hillonearth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 On 15/01/2016 at 04:29, banana said: Bizarre the number of people who think that satire always implies humour. I heartily applaud Hebdo for not backing down and for staying provocative in the face of religion and the leftist, 'progressive' totalitarians hell bent on censorship, silencing, and controlling the narrative. Ah, remember this? Simpler times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academically Deficient Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 43 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: Until I realised the thread had been resurrected due to the trial, my first thought was tout a fait la bosse! La bosse est tries grande, n'est pas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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