renton Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Loondave1 said: I can't help but wonder how many on here are now rabidly pro EU simply because the SNP see BREXIT as an opportunity to further Indy2.Lets just imagine the SNP were all for leaving the UK and EU and becoming truly independent how many would leap on board with both anti EU and UK rhetoric.A fair few i reckon. It's a fairly simple maxim: Which option offers Scotland the most control over it's own policies, institutions and destiny? There is nothing inherently wrong with that viewpoint either. In a contest between the supranational, federal EU and the centralising, incorporating UK state, it's a no brainer. "Truly independent" is a complete misnomer as well, isolation North Korean style is the only real path to "true independence" - for everyone else there is the grubby realpolitik of trading off sovereignty vs market access. Getting that balance is all important and for me, independence within the EU offers a much better balance than the incorporated UK state. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 15 minutes ago, Loondave1 said: I can't help but wonder how many on here are now rabidly pro EU simply because the SNP see BREXIT as an opportunity to further Indy2.Lets just imagine the SNP were all for leaving the UK and EU and becoming truly independent how many would leap on board with both anti EU and UK rhetoric.A fair few i reckon. About as many as are suddenly pro-Brexit and the supposed opportunities it will afford because voters in England and Wales have told them Scotland is leaving whether it likes it or not. Wouldn't want to look like bolshy Jocks who have spoken out of turn, would we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 About as many as are suddenly pro-Brexit and the supposed opportunities it will afford because voters in England and Wales have told them Scotland is leaving whether it likes it or not. Wouldn't want to look like bolshy Jocks who have spoken out of turn, would we? Im pro EU 100% but would bet money on SNP fanboys foaming about BREXIT despite never having a thought in their head about it until pretty recently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 38 minutes ago, Loondave1 said: Im pro EU 100% but would bet money on SNP fanboys foaming about BREXIT despite never having a thought in their head about it until pretty recently. So pro-EU that you still want Scotland to leave, despite a majority of Scots voting to stay? Of course, if you're saying you don't want Scotland to leave, welcome to supporting Scottish statehood, I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So pro-EU that you still want Scotland to leave, despite a majority of Scots voting to stay? Of course, if you're saying you don't want Scotland to leave, welcome to supporting Scottish statehood, I guess. No i respect the fact the majority voted to leave and thats a result of every individual having a vote and nothing to do with individual nationalities.If Indy1 had been a YES we maybe would have something to cry about but as we voted to remain in the UK it's not relevant.Dissapointing to be heading for the exit but im mature enough to realise everything i want isn't going to happen in life so I'll just be getting on with the consequences without the salty tears.Also just because Scotland is leaving the EU doesn't mean ive any desire to throw myself under the bus of fiscal reality the SNP would be driving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Every individual was not allowed a vote though funnily enough based on individual nationalities. lol. Hope the SNP do the same in the next Indy vote. Only Scottish people, infact just make it only Scottish people that support the SNP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Every individual was not allowed a vote though funnily enough based on individual nationalities. lol. Hope the SNP do the same in the next Indy vote. Only Scottish people, infact just make it only Scottish people that support the SNP. [emoji6] Every individual that had a vote got to vote individually as an individual then.Clears that up brawly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Every individual that had a vote got to vote individually as an individual then.Clears that up brawly. You said every individual had a vote and it had nothing to do with nationality. Incorrect 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 56 minutes ago, Loondave1 said: No i respect the fact the majority voted to leave and thats a result of every individual having a vote and nothing to do with individual nationalities.If Indy1 had been a YES we maybe would have something to cry about but as we voted to remain in the UK it's not relevant.Dissapointing to be heading for the exit but im mature enough to realise everything i want isn't going to happen in life so I'll just be getting on with the consequences without the salty tears.Also just because Scotland is leaving the EU doesn't mean ive any desire to throw myself under the bus of fiscal reality the SNP would be driving. But, as a good Jock who knows Scotland's rightful place is as a region of the UK with no national voice, you're happy to throw yourself under the "bus of fiscal reality" the Tories will be driving. You rather fit the bill of the type I laid out: the once pro-EU regionalist turned suddenly pro-Brexit because voters in England and Wales have told them Scotland is leaving whether it likes it or not. Wouldn't want to look like one of those bolshy Jocks who has spoken out of turn and wants Scotland recognised as a thing, would we? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 But, as a good Jock who knows Scotland's rightful place is as a region of the UK with no national voice, you're happy to throw yourself under the "bus of fiscal reality" the Tories will be driving. You rather fit the bill of the type I laid out: the once pro-EU regionalist turned suddenly pro-Brexit because voters in England and Wales have told them Scotland is leaving whether it likes it or not. Wouldn't want to look like one of those bolshy Jocks who has spoken out of turn and wants Scotland recognised as a thing, would we? Your the one that peppers your posts with the "Jocks" patter. I think your view of Scotland is pretty patronising.Massive chip on the shoulder mate.Still Pro Eu by the way but realistic about what's happening.I do find it funny when a Nat doesn't get it's own way it leads to an outbreak of bed wetting and foot stamping followed by "Uncle Tom" type accusations about "Scottishness" .It might be shocking but the SNP don't own the defination of being Scottish although to be fair they don't deploy that tactic officially.I think that's left to the buzzy bees and dafties that think it will further the cause by alienating other voters.Great plan Baldrick...[emoji2] [emoji2] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Russia Today has had its accounts frozen with no recourse to appeal the decision. Comes just a day after Joe Biden and Boris Johnson were arguably ramping up a bit more Russophobia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) 9 hours ago, Loondave1 said: Your the one that peppers your posts with the "Jocks" patter. I think your view of Scotland is pretty patronising.Massive chip on the shoulder mate.Still Pro Eu by the way but realistic about what's happening.I do find it funny when a Nat doesn't get it's own way it leads to an outbreak of bed wetting and foot stamping followed by "Uncle Tom" type accusations about "Scottishness" .It might be shocking but the SNP don't own the defination of being Scottish although to be fair they don't deploy that tactic officially.I think that's left to the buzzy bees and dafties that think it will further the cause by alienating other voters.Great plan Baldrick... And I think your view of Scotland is pretty servile. You admit that you are strongly pro-EU, and that the majority of Scots want to retain European right and citizenship. Yet despite that you will blithely say, "well, you know, we voted as the UK, not Scotland, so fair play that Scotland doesn't matter a bit; let's just go with it, lads." Now name me one nation outside these isles which accepts its larger neighbour telling it it has to leave supranational unions. Better yet, name me one nation worthy of the name whose people will actually bend over backwards, as you do, to point out that it doesn't even vote as a unitary nation, but as a region that makes up a minority of the state's population. No one said the SNP own Scottishness. Like most regionalists, you can't see past them - you can't understand that your own UK nationalism and its heavy handed "one nation Great Britain" stuff is what's fuelling Scottish nationalism. For all I know, not wanting Scotland to have a normal country's say in its own affairs is a Scottish trait. Edited October 17, 2016 by Antlion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 1 hour ago, NotThePars said: Russia Today has had its accounts frozen with no recourse to appeal the decision. Comes just a day after Joe Biden and Boris Johnson were arguably ramping up a bit more Russophobia. It'll not be long 'til Boris and his chums are faced with raking over a collapsed London property market, will their arses collapse before or after London property prices. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Disgraceful behave rt. I've been watching it a lot recently it wipes the floor with the BBC in terms of quality of output and journalism, and has less, propaganda too. It does obviously have propaganda while discussing Russia but not as much. Britain and the USA are conducting themselves disgracefully over all this. We are the liars and the illegitimate predecessor here and we are the ones spoiling fora fight and ramping up the rhetoric and antimrussian propaganda. Our governments seem desperate to, engineer a conflict with Russia, very worrying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The reason I quite enjoy Russia Today is it's so so awful at pretending to be remotely impartial so it's easy to watch without taking anything in you shouldn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 The reason I quite enjoy Russia Today is it's so so awful at pretending to be remotely impartial so it's easy to watch without taking anything in you shouldn't. You mean Putin Today don't you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I saw a lady on Melville street outside the Russian Embassy carrying a sign saying "Putin Out!" In big lettersAnd that, your honour, is where the problems started. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarusQPFC Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 35 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said: Disgraceful behave rt. I've been watching it a lot recently it wipes the floor with the BBC in terms of quality of output and journalism, and has less, propaganda too. It does obviously have propaganda while discussing Russia but not as much. Britain and the USA are conducting themselves disgracefully over all this. We are the liars and the illegitimate predecessor here and we are the ones spoiling fora fight and ramping up the rhetoric and antimrussian propaganda. Our governments seem desperate to, engineer a conflict with Russia, very worrying. There has been alot of it over the past decade, i agree that it is concerning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 37 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: You mean Putin Today don't you? What's the difference? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Would be good if the discourse in the UK and US wasn't unanimously focused on sabre rattling with the Russians tbh. I quite like the idea of avoiding nuclear armageddon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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