strichener Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, BawWatchin said: No they didn't. They had an idea for a system to replace it with. But nothing that had been tried or tested for practicality. The greens wanted to scrap council tax and replace it with a system that hadn't been tested, so of course it was voted down. Labour very predictably abstained on the issue as they didn't want to be seen siding with the SNP or the Tories, even although they were in full agreement. They very clearly did have an alternative. It set out proposals on how the LIT would work in 2007. 3% on all taxable income except savings income and continued property taxes on second homes and empty homes. They even setup a commission after ditching LIT to investigate the alternatives and their relative impact, so there has been plenty of work already carried out into alternatives. The commission's conclusions were that Council tax as presently constructed has to come to an end. The way you are suggesting this is that Scotland would be some pioneer here which is ignoring that the US, Canada, Switzerland, Belgium and Spain to name but a few already have subnational personal income tax in force. The only thing unique in Scotland was the SNP's council tax fudge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 See this Labour anti-semitism thing, have there been specific examples of it documented in the media and I've missed it? Genuinely interested to know without folk going all political about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 53 minutes ago, H Wragg said: See this Labour anti-semitism thing, have there been specific examples of it documented in the media and I've missed it? Genuinely interested to know without folk going all political about it. From what I've seen it's mainly tweets saying "Zionist bitch" and the like. There's a foggy intersection between anti semitism and condemnation of the Israeli Government which both anti semites and Israel fanboys/girls make use of for their own agendas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, H Wragg said: See this Labour anti-semitism thing, have there been specific examples of it documented in the media and I've missed it? Genuinely interested to know without folk going all political about it. I’ve asked the same question on here a number of times and tried to Google specific incidents without much success. If it’s as rife as is being claimed I would have thought it would be easy to find multiple examples. 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: From what I've seen it's mainly tweets saying "Zionist bitch" and the like. There's a foggy intersection between anti semitism and condemnation of the Israeli Government which both anti semites and Israel fanboys/girls make use of for their own agendas. So no then... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: So no then... You could always send an FOI request to the Labour Party for a breakdown of the 600? odd complaints. Edited February 22, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: You could always send an FOI request to the Labour Party for a breakdown of the 600? odd complaints. Can you send a FOI to a political party? I didn’t know that. Doesn’t detract from my point. Multiple, multiple claims of anti-Semitism by Labour Party members, virtually no examples offered. In the era of social media I find that genuinely astonishing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, H Wragg said: See this Labour anti-semitism thing, have there been specific examples of it documented in the media and I've missed it? Genuinely interested to know without folk going all political about it. I don't know about the rest of the MPs but there have been a few incidents around Corbyn. He didn't want to accept the full IHRA definition of antisemitism. He went to the funeral of the Palestinian terrorists. He compared Israel to the Nazis. He made that speech about Jews not fitting into English culture. He liked that antisemitic mural in London. That's the ones I can remember. I'm sure there are more examples. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: Can you send a FOI to a political party? I didn’t know that. Doesn’t detract from my point. Multiple, multiple claims of anti-Semitism by Labour Party members, virtually no examples offered. In the era of social media I find that genuinely astonishing. It would be hard to see this mural that Corbyn defended as anything other than anti semitic. The artist even admitted it was deliberately so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Cerberus said: He didn't want to accept the full IHRA definition of antisemitism The academic who wrote them said they weren't meant to be rules of acceptable speech, but an analytical tool for sociologists to gauge antisemitism. The example objected to would make it anti semitic to disapprove of the ethnic cleansing Israel carried out in 1948, something denied by almost nobody, except for those who say that people who call themselves Palestinians never existed. Edited February 22, 2019 by welshbairn 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I was about to respond to Cerberus’s claims but then realised I couldn’t think of anything more pointless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Cerberus said: I don't know about the rest of the MPs but there have been a few incidents around Corbyn. He didn't want to accept the full IHRA definition of antisemitism. He went to the funeral of the Palestinian terrorists. He compared Israel to the Nazis. He made that speech about Jews not fitting into English culture. He liked that antisemitic mural in London. That's the ones I can remember. I'm sure there are more examples. I certainly don’t accept the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism. I have sympathies with Palestinian ‘terrorists’ and think that the oppression of the Palestinians by Israel can be compared to what the Nazis did to Jews and others; obviously on a far smaller scale. There are some Jews who have no interest in integrating into ‘English’ ‘culture’; there are also many examples of Muslims not wanting to integrate into such ‘culture’. I don’t like the mural. I’m not anti-Semitic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I certainly don’t accept the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism. I have sympathies with Palestinian ‘terrorists’ and think that the oppression of the Palestinians by Israel can be compared to what the Nazis did to Jews and others; obviously on a far smaller scale. There are some Jews who have no interest in integrating into ‘English’ ‘culture’; there are also many examples of Muslims not wanting to integrate into such ‘culture’. I don’t like the mural. I’m not anti-Semitic. I echo all these sentiments, however you'll find we're both "anti semitic" according to some.................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: It would be hard to see this mural that Corbyn defended as anything other than anti semitic. The artist even admitted it was deliberately so. Did he? Genuine question - I thought he defended it saying the opposite, and that it was against class and elitism. Some of the bankers depicted are Jewish and some are not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: Did he? Genuine question - I thought he defended it saying the opposite, and that it was against class and elitism. Some of the bankers depicted are Jewish and some are not. He said it was unfair to criticize it as Rockerfeller once had a mural removed because Lenin was in it. Edited February 22, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: He said it was unfair to criticize it as Rothchild once had a Marxist mural removed. This is what I was thinking of. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/mere-one-mural-east-london-politics-antisemitism-392209 Quote Kalen Ockerman, aka Mear One, on his Facebook page explained: "I came to paint a mural that depicted the elite banker cartel known as the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, the ruling class elite few, the Wizards of Oz. They would be playing a board game of monopoly on the backs of the working class. The symbol of the Free Mason Pyramid rises behind this group and behind that is a polluted world of coal burning and nuclear reactors. I was creating this piece to inspire critical thought and spark conversation." However a day or so later he added: "A group of conservatives do not like my mural and are playing a race card with me. My mural is about class and privilege. The banker group is made up of Jewish and white Anglos. For some reason they are saying I am anti-semitic. This I am most definitely not... What I am against is class." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) Or this.. Quote MEAR ONE "Freedom For Humanity - False Profits" 2012, East London, spray paint on a dilapidated wall. "It was a real adventure trooping around the globe solo, seeking my purpose. This particular moment struck a nerve amongst those who have buried their heads in the sand, something like a wake up call. The time I spent working on this mural connected me to hundreds of passers by all conversing about the piece. The support over-weighed the criticism yet it got heated several times, kinda like painting the streets of LA back in the late 80's. The subject matter sparked controversy. Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are. As usual issues like these are controversial and it is easiest to label it something like anti-semitic to avoid the larger debate in search of truth. Sometimes the truth is too dark, too serious, and too real for people to want to wake up to. This is the #CognitiveDissonance I speak of in my current show opening this weekend. I believe there is no difference between a Jew, Christian, or Muslim, they all made the simplest of choices, they chose to be lead instead of realizing their true self nature and accepting that they themselves are already god. The truth of self realization is that no one can tell you who you are, rich man or slave, I think not. I am a lover of all humanity and this piece was not meant to offend, its purpose was to throw a swimming pool of gasoline onto the fire most people choose to ignore." Edited February 22, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I don't know about the rest of the MPs but there have been a few incidents around Corbyn. He didn't want to accept the full IHRA definition of antisemitism. He went to the funeral of the Palestinian terrorists. He compared Israel to the Nazis. He made that speech about Jews not fitting into English culture. He liked that antisemitic mural in London. That's the ones I can remember. I'm sure there are more examples. Incidents. I'm no fan of Corbyn as I've posted on here, but that list doesn't amount to a hill of beans when set beside the war crimes of Blair, Straw, Hoon, etc., the cheerleading of Cameron for Libyan insurrection, the sale of lethal ordnance on May's watch enabling Saudia Arabia to eviscerate Yemeni children, and not forgetting Thatcher's sinking of the Belgrano.I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Incidents. I'm no fan of Corbyn as I've posted on here, but that list doesn't amount to a hill of beans when set beside the war crimes of Blair, Straw, Hoon, etc., the cheerleading of Cameron for Libyan insurrection, the sale of lethal ordnance on May's watch enabling Saudia Arabia to eviscerate Yemeni children, and not forgetting Thatcher's sinking of the Belgrano.I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift.Is it a hill of "own brand" beans ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 The Guardian saying May will be gone in months (as PM not as an MP) and rates the likliehood of her successor. Joint front runners are Sajid Javid and (wait for it) Jeremy Hunt!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 What? Unions are made up of members, not weird psychopaths hell-bent on strikes. This. The "unions just want to go on strike" patter absolutely boils my piss. Brutal, lazy insulting nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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