Scots

[Jacksgranda]

I'm not suggesting we don't teach modern languages. They are a great thing. It broadens the mind, exposes you to different cultures and is generally all round a good thing to do.

But

I do wonder where all this guff comes from about it being useful in later life comes in. What's the return on investment for something apparently so vital.

Even folk like myself who got their higher and can still speak half decent German will say when visiting Germany it is perfectly possible to live in English. Everyone from doctors to gästarbeiten driving taxis will speak in English even if you initiate a conversation in German.

I can see the logic in saying it is important that a child is taking French or Spanish. I doubt the reality bears that out.

 

I got Higher French and would struggle to string a sentence together to make a conversation. (S'il vouz-plais, comment allez-vous, n'est  pas, etc wouldn't get me too far.) Having said that I can skim over a tract written in French and get the gist of it.

 

As you say, I've found on my trips abroad (on holiday) the natives speak/understand English. Speaking a foreign language fluently would be helpful in business circles etc I would imagine.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/12/16/ootland/

A rather good article on the subject.

There is a theory that the reason that the Celtic nations produce such a high percentage of famous poets, writers and playwrights compared to England, per capita, is down to the differences in grammar, syntax, lexicon, etc. that we all develop growing up. Phrases that are used every day in Wales, Scotland and Ireland make absolutely no sense in English (eg: using "How come?" as opposed to "Why?" in Scotland as an obvious one) so, when writing, they have multiple choices already in their head (dialect and 'proper' English) to choose from but also an inbuilt ability to weave around rigid ideas of grammar and language that "pure" English speakers need to learn.

I think too many people look at the idea of languages from a purely vocational outlook and, equally, there's some who look at it from a purely artistic outlook. There are follow on aspects to knowing an extra language, even a dialect, that are beneficial from many points of view. Only a fool would dismiss them outright.

[Gordon EF]

I'd bet that there's a high overlap between people who find any word that might, in some way, be considered 'Scottish' abhorrent and No voters.

[Scary Bear]

I'm not suggesting we don't teach modern languages. They are a great thing. It broadens the mind, exposes you to different cultures and is generally all round a good thing to do.

But

I do wonder where all this guff comes from about it being useful in later life comes in. What's the return on investment for something apparently so vital.

Even folk like myself who got their higher and can still speak half decent German will say when visiting Germany it is perfectly possible to live in English. Everyone from doctors to gästarbeiten driving taxis will speak in English even if you initiate a conversation in German.

I can see the logic in saying it is important that a child is taking French or Spanish. I doubt the reality bears that out.

From memory, being bilingual helps with future learning and brain development in children.

[Scary Bear]

I'd bet that there's a high overlap between people who find any word that might, in some way, be considered 'Scottish' abhorrent and No voters.

Probably. However, even for Yes voters, like myself, the push for Gaelic doesn't sit well. I like the idea of my children being bilingual or multi-lingual, but if they are going to learn languages, it might as well be ones they have a better than average chance of using.

The occasional Scots words are widely spoken and I would have thought kids would learn these from their friends and parents.

[invergowrie arab]

From memory, being bilingual helps with future learning and brain development in children.

Yep. Hundreds of benefits of being bilingual.

That could be Gaelic,Swahili or Spanish and would need to be in place from birth to 3.

[invergowrie arab]

Probably. However, even for Yes voters, like myself, the push for Gaelic doesn't sit well.

What push for Gaelic? Do you mean one person on here or a national movement to have Gaelic as a core subject. What does being a Yes voter have to with anything?

[Scary Bear]

Don't all schools teach foreign languages? It may have changed since I was at school but it was one of the core subjects that we had to do up until standard grade.

I would have thought so. Even back in the '80s were were taught French as a core subject up to third year when you picked your O Grades.

I'm not sure what percentage go on to get a qualification in a language, but I would have though most people learn one.

[Scary Bear]

What push for Gaelic? Do you mean one person on here or a national movement to have Gaelic as a core subject. What does being a Yes voter have to with anything?

I responded to a post which referred to No voters.

The push for Gaelic being the rail signs and signs on public buildings in Gaelic and the push towards teaching Gaelic. Maybe it's just because I work for a public sector organisation but it's something I've noticed. I mean the increased push for Gaelic language to be introduced and promoted. How did that all gain momentum?

[Scary Bear]

Would there be room on the signs if we had the Scots words too?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Yeah... just get rid of the English

[Scary Bear]

Yeah... just get rid of the English

But...but...think of the tourists! Think of the economy! The queen?

[Scary Bear]

Yep. Hundreds of benefits of being bilingual.

That could be Gaelic,Swahili or Spanish and would need to be in place from birth to 3.

Ah well, it was a nice idea.

[invergowrie arab]

I responded to a post which referred to No voters.

The push for Gaelic being the rail signs and signs on public buildings in Gaelic and the push towards teaching Gaelic. Maybe it's just because I work for a public sector organisation but it's something I've noticed. I mean the increased push for Gaelic language to be introduced and promoted. How did that all gain momentum?

The Gaelic Language Act 2005 was introduce by Lab Lib government but with cross party support.

One of the key provisions of the act was that devolved public bodies should regard Gaelic as having equal respect with English (a legally meaningless term and quite deliberately not parity).

That's where Gaelic rail signs or a wee bit of Gaelic under a Forestry Commission logo come from 10 years later. Why that annoys people I have no earthly idea.

Again I'm not sure what you mean by a push towards teaching Gaelic. Where, by whom, as an elective GME option or an Ireland style national first language compulsory?

My sister in Dundee has the option for GME education forget child. It means one primary class 15 miles away inForm far that she would have to arrange transport for. If she lived in Perthshire where I am it would be 20 miles into Perth on same basis. I'm not moaning, it's a parenting choice to out out of mainstream catchment area schools but at the same time I would describe it as all pervasive.

[Scary Bear]

It doesn't annoy me as such. I'm trying to think of the best word to describe my feelings to it. Perplexing?

At least I now know why it happened.

For opponents of Holyrood that sort of stuff is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Scary Bear

[invergowrie arab]

I'm not saying youv particularly but it does absolutely enrage some people.

I understand people's being perplexed by it, it irritates me admittedly, but I understand it.

I suppose the Scotland wide nature of the rail signs would confuse people. I don't think it is part of a Nicola sturgeon Jacobite conspiracy, it is simply easier to have an act that extends across Scotland than getting into unending discussions about what is/was Gaelic Scotland. It's the halal chicken in Tesco principle.

[calum_gers]

It doesn't annoy me as such. I'm trying to think of the best word to describe my feelings to it. Perplexing?

At least I now know why it happened.

For opponents of Holyrood that sort of stuff is like shooting fish in a barrel.

So they shouldn't do it incase people don't like it?

[AsimButtHitsASix]

Just wait til someone brings Norn back as a revived language. c***s will be fuckin' ragin'

[Gordon EF]

Probably. However, even for Yes voters, like myself, the push for Gaelic doesn't sit well. I like the idea of my children being bilingual or multi-lingual, but if they are going to learn languages, it might as well be ones they have a better than average chance of using.

The occasional Scots words are widely spoken and I would have thought kids would learn these from their friends and parents.

 

I'd agree, if, hypothetically, someone argued that Gaelic should be mandatory as a 2nd language in schools. I wouldn't agree with them. AFAIK, nobody's seriously suggesting that.

[Ad Lib]

What percentage of secondary school pupils studying French or Spanish right now will find it helpful in later life do you think, outside of ordering a couple of beers in a bar in Benidorm?

Ordering beers in Benidorm is more useful than ordering beers in Scotland, which they can already do in English.