Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 That's just wrong though. The law is not enforceable in England for either person in your hypothetical scenario. Yes it is. In section 1 and this section, “regulated football matchâ€â€” (b)does not include a regulated football match outside Scotland unless the match involves— (i)a national team appointed to represent Scotland, or (ii)a team representing a club that is a member of a football association or league based in Scotland. As well as applying to anything done in Scotland by any person, section 1(1) also applies to anything done outside Scotland by a person who is habitually resident in Scotland. I'm starting to think that the people vehemently defending this thing have never read it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 That's just wrong though. The law is not enforceable in England for either person in your hypothetical scenario. Read section 10 of the Act. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 In what way did anyone force the Herald to sack Graham Speirs? They sacked him of their own volition. Speirs and Haggerty in my opinion have an agenda to cast a negative light on the Rangers fanbase and seemed to be silent when Aberdeen fans were in trouble over their conduct at Tannadice and whenever Ce***c fans decide to show their delinquency at away games. That, however is another point. The Herald could have easily decided to keep Graham Speirs on but they decided to sack him. Your own fan, a follow, follower since boyhood has an agenda? Gid yin. Parks threatened to withdraw his advertising if the truth wasn't suppressed. How about McLaughlin, whats your beef with him? Other than he also likes to tell the truth about your fans? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Voltaire, and that's apocryphal. For the record, Voltaire was a champion of fighting against the repression of the Protestant faith. Unlike Sevcos and their Section B vassals, whose primary reason for existence is to sing songs about killing ******s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 How does the threat of withdrawing advertising force an employer to sack their employee? Well if you say sack him or I'll take my money away, that usually does the trick. Thanks for admitting you know what this is about and for ignoring McLaughlin and the BBC. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Victims of racism often use intelligence and humour to combat hate speech. I don't doubt for a second that England fans chant racist epithets about Germans. Doesn't mean it isn't racist. Victims? You've obviously never been to a Scotland-England game. This is simply your justification of bigotry, and equating it to Rangers and their supporter clubs marketing themselves to loyalist Ulstermen and Celtic to Irish Catholics in the midst of a civil war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Your own fan, a follow, follower since boyhood has an agenda? Gid yin. Parks threatened to withdraw his advertising if the truth wasn't suppressed. How about McLaughlin, whats your beef with him? Other than he also likes to tell the truth about your fans? How does the threat of withdrawing advertising force an employer to sack their employee? When the company is so on its uppers and so heavily dependent on advertising to stay afloat. It's no secret in journalism that The Herald is in deep trouble & Newsquest has little qualms in appeasing major advertisers across their titles to keep them onside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 You seem not to be understanding that they still could have kept him on in spite of losing their advertising revenue. As for Chris Mclaughlin, he approached match delegates and asked them for information, which was then granted against the guidelines of the SPFL. These journalists are opportunistic scumbags who wish to destroy the good name of the Rangers support. These journalists seem to be absent when minorities of other club's fans are acting like knobs. Yes they could have ignored the threat to free speech, of which you were claiming to be a fan just a moment ago but chose not to. So McLaughlin was right, Speirs was right, I'm right, Waffen here is right and you're a bit biitter because you don't like your fans being criticised? Just fill in the bits where I've strayed here will you, there's a good chap. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Stop the bus. Totally missed this. You seem not to be understanding that they still could have kept him on in spite of losing their advertising revenue. As for Chris Mclaughlin, he approached match delegates and asked them for information, which was then granted against the guidelines of the SPFL. These journalists are opportunistic scumbags who wish to destroy the good name of the Rangers support. These journalists seem to be absent when minorities of other club's fans are acting like knobs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Fucking hell man. Noone was stopping Graham Speirs from saying whatever shite he wanted and noone was forcing the Herald to sack any of their employees. Apart from one of your shareholders, and your new club and their legal team you are spot on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Yes it is. I'm starting to think that the people vehemently defending this thing have never read it. Ehm, no it isn't. The person could only be charged in Scotland, they wouldn't be arrested in England so I don't see where the criminal record is going to come from. THere are about 14 pages telling us that this is unenforceable in Scotland and yet now we are to believe that someone at a Scotland International in a foreign country is likely to be convicted of a criminal charge. Right you are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Let's consider all of this. Remember that a regulated football match includes pubs which are showing a game, and "a person may be regarded as having been on a journey to or from a regulated football match whether or not the person attended or intended to attend the match" So football doesn't actually need to be involved in a charge. At all. No even tangentially. Also that "behaviour that a reasonable person would be likely to consider offensive" is illegal. Which covers a huge range of things, extending well well beyond sectarianism, racism, sexism, other assorted 'isms'. Now to be fair it does say that it should only be things likely to incite disorder, but it still counts even if "persons likely to be incited to public disorder are not present or are not present in sufficient numbers." So it doesn't matter if there was no-one actually there to be offended. And of course, the law "applies to anything done outside Scotland by a person who is habitually resident in Scotland," provided they are at a 'regulate football match involving a Scottish team', which we've established can mean anything. At the end of this month Scotland play Italy in Malta. Fan A travels from Glasgow to the game, and joins in with a chant of "If you hate the English clap your hands." Fan B, who lives in London, is in the next seat along and joins in with the same chant. Fan A has committed a criminal offence. Fan B has done nothing wrong, and neither of them have offended or hurt anyone at all. If you can defend that then frankly you're a moron. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Victims? You've obviously never been to a Scotland-England game. This is simply your justification of bigotry, and equating it to Rangers and their supporter clubs marketing themselves to loyalist Ulstermen and Celtic to Irish Catholics in the midst of a civil war. Yes, Haiku, victims. You're a tier two oppressor. Horrible bigot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) If this were anything other than a law which targetted Old Firm fans singing about Northern Ireland, nobody would be mental enough to invent some of the shit that gets contrived to strike it down around here. Scotland fans who live in Aldershot getting hit by dawn raids for slagging off Jimmy Hill. Edited May 17, 2016 by Thumper 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) Ehm, no it isn't. The person could only be charged in Scotland, they wouldn't be arrested in England so I don't see where the criminal record is going to come from. THere are about 14 pages telling us that this is unenforceable in Scotland and yet now we are to believe that someone at a Scotland International in a foreign country is likely to be convicted of a criminal charge. Right you are. Scottish police travelling with fans (which would certainly have been the case at Wembley) film the crowd, identify culprits and arrest them at home. (3)Where an offence under section 1(1) or 6(1) is committed outside Scotland, the person committing the offence may be prosecuted, tried and punished for the offence— (a)in any sheriff court district in which the person is apprehended or in custody, or (b)in such sheriff court district as the Lord Advocate may direct, as if the offence had been committed in that district (and the offence is, for all purposes incidental to or consequential on the trial and punishment, deemed to have been committed in that district). Read the document. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2012/1/contents/enacted Edited May 17, 2016 by Carl Cort's Hamstring 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) The Rangers support is admired the world over unlike that of your club, which is known for rampant hooliganism and despicable songs mocking the death of innocent people all driven by bitter resentment of a far superior club. I can't remember, are you the ones who get rattled, with our without an h? Well whichever one it is, you are that. Edited May 17, 2016 by williemillersmoustache 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 If this were anything other than a law which targetted Old Firm fans singing about Northern Ireland, nobody would be mental enough to invent some of the shit that gets contrived to strike it down around here. Scotland fans who live in Aldershot getting hit by dawn raids for slagging off Jimmy Hill. Honestly, the mental gymnastics on here are astounding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 If this were anything other than a law which targetted Old Firm fans singing about Northern Ireland, nobody would be mental enough to invent some of the shit that gets contrived to strike it down around here. Scotland fans who live in Aldershot getting hit by dawn raids for slagging off Jimmy Hill. As an Aberdeen fan, I've obviously got a massive hard-on for the Old Firm and their crap. But fine, a different scenario then: Celtic play a televised pre-season friendly in the USA. A few drunk Scottish fans start singing the Roll of honour (which people have been arrested for under this law). This is a song which has no cultural context in the States. It doesn't offend anyone at the game, and is certainly unlikely to incite violence. A Rangers fan watching it on TV picks up on the tune, spots a face they recognise in the crowd, tapes the footage and sends it to the police. Now, the Celtic fan, while probably guilty of being an arse, hasn't actually offended anyone. They certainly haven't committed a crime in America. Yet they could be arrested and charged when they get home. That's clearly absurd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 As an Aberdeen fan, I've obviously got a massive hard-on for the Old Firm and their crap. But fine, a different scenario then: Celtic play a televised pre-season friendly in the USA. A few drunk Scottish fans start singing the Roll of honour (which people have been arrested for under this law). This is a song which has no cultural context in the States. It doesn't offend anyone at the game, and is certainly unlikely to incite violence. A Rangers fan watching it on TV picks up on the tune, spots a face they recognise in the crowd, tapes the footage and sends it to the police. Now, the Celtic fan, while probably guilty of being an arse, hasn't actually offended anyone. They certainly haven't committed a crime in America. Yet they could be arrested and charged when they get home. That's clearly absurd. Honestly Carl, I think that would be a brilliant application. While the majority of a US audience would have no idea what was going on, plenty of other people would and for me this is all about who and what represents our game. We have decided, as a nation, that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and the ability to charge Scottish football fans with a crime while representing their team and country abroad sounds absolutely brand new to me. Whether it's the tartan army on tour the Dandies in Europe or one of THEM doing a glamour friendly in vegas. Never mind the local polis, f**k about overseas with your club or country and expect to get felt at the airport, ideal. Sign me up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Honestly Carl, I think that would be a brilliant application. While the majority of a US audience would have no idea what was going on, plenty of other people would and for me this is all about who and what represents our game. We have decided, as a nation, that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and the ability to charge Scottish football fans with a crime while representing their team and country abroad sounds absolutely brand new to me. Whether it's the tartan army on tour the Dandies in Europe or one of THEM doing a glamour friendly in vegas. Never mind the local polis, f**k about overseas with your club or country and expect to get felt at the airport, ideal. Sign me up. This is just astonishing. Truly, it seems, people don't care about human rights when it's people they don't like's human rights being interfered with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.