Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

Assuming we stay up, having a new team in place for the start of next season that is competitive without our very familiar faces is a massive challenge, even more so for a very inexperienced manager - and that is where Robinson will ultimately be judged I think.

I've been saying this for a while.  Take out the old guard from that squad - Lasley, Hammell, McManus, Pearson, McDonald - and what have you got left? 

Lasley's legs have gone and he can't really play at this level any more (although I still think he's a better pick than some of our midfielders), Hammell's injuries have taken their told and he's missing half the time (again still better than any alternative in the squad) and McDonald and possibly Pearson could be on their way at the end of the season.  That could put McManus in a fairly unenviable position next season.  Also puts Robinson in a hell of a position to bring in players to replace them who are fit to lace even their aged boots, never mind them at their prime.

Motherwell look to me a bit like Scotland post Craig Brown.  The drop off in quality from one generation to the next makes it almost impossible for who ever is in charge.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

38 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Or alternatively, he did enough in his year here to show the club that they think he's good enough.

I dunno, much like Swello, I'm neither up nor down. There's no outstanding candidate here, and there are risks with either sticking or twisting. I didn't want Hughes, I think Simo is a big risk in our situation just now. As has been highlighted, Robinson has a bit of a failure whiff about him from Baraclough and Oldham.

I dunno, honestly, I'm not even sure I'm arsed. The players had chucked it under McGhee, as they had under McCall, as they had under Gannon, as they had under Baraclough as well. We're stuck in the same pattern of rinse and repeat, except we've got the same collection of problems every time. 

Long been a defender of Lasley, Hammell etc., but there has to be a big fucking broom taken through the club in the summer, regardless of what happens. I've lost count of how many times I've heard the "we're going to have to look at ourselves" from a Motherwell captain.

If Robinson can keep us up, then fair fucks to him. The players looked distinctly more arsed about it in Kilmarnock and Aberdeen, so if we can do that again on Saturday, and another couple til the end then fine, but I'm fairly confident it isn't going to solve anything longer term.

 

Aye we need a clear out and a change of attitude right across the board. Appointing someone who has been a huge part of the last few years of failure as the manager is totally the wrong direction.

[Swello]

2 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I've been saying this for a while.  Take out the old guard from that squad - Lasley, Hammell, McManus, Pearson, McDonald - and what have you got left? 

A relatively large wage budget.

I agree with your point though - but assuming most of these wages are freed up, you would think we had some scope to bring in some decent players.

[capt_oats]

Out of curiosity beyond Robinson and Valakari do we know who the other 3 interviewed were?

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

A relatively large wage budget.

I agree with your point though - but assuming most of these wages are freed up, you would think we had some scope to bring in some decent players.

Well didn't they agree to wage decreases? 

Given the scope of the improvement needed I don't think Robinson is going to have anything other than a hard time attracting decent players with his budget.  Replacing like with like isn't even good enough.  We need to improve far beyond that if it's going to be anything other than a struggle yet again next season (assuming we survive this campaign).

[Swello]

Even with wage drops, I would be surprised if you hadn't just listed our top earners (sans Moult).

[Casagolda]

32 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Pretty decent.

Our defence and goalkeeper is an absolute shambles most of the time. No goals from midfield either. It is grim.

No goals from anywhere really, even Moult and McDonald's goals have largely dried up. We've scored 7 goals in 8 league matches in 2017 and by my reckoning only 1(ONE) has been from open play and that was our first of 2017 away back on the 31st of January. The 6 goals we've scored since then have all been from set pieces. Throw in the fact we've got the worst defensive record in the division, 22 goals conceded in those 8 games, then relegation looks a distinct possibility. 

Thought it would be Robinson from the start as he fitted the bill of what the club were looking for including being cheap and willing to work within the structure already in place. To be fair to him as Graeme said there's certainly been a bit more fight about the team in the last two games and we do look a bit more organised but whether that's going to be enough to keep us up come the end of the season is another matter. 

Good luck to him, if he keeps us up then he deserves a proper crack at it next season. If he fails miserably, well then hopefully someone was sensible enough to slip a relegation clause in his contract.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Casagolda

[capt_oats]

So according to 'Flow Hughes didn't apply (nor did Coyle). Curious about the other 3 interviewed but realistically if it was a straight choice between Robinson & Valakari then Valakari seems like he'd have been much more of a risk at this point. The fact that Robinson's only on a 14 month deal suggests that both parties are looking at it as being a case of "keep us up and see how it goes".

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/stephen-robinson-is-permanent-motherwell-gaffer-1-4393001

[MikeyWellFan]

It's the kind of appointment that will please those that would've been happy to give McGhee until the end of the season.

Uninspiring, cheap and could well be our ticket to the Championship.

[Dosser-fae-the-shire]

It's the kind of appointment that will please those that would've been happy to give McGhee until the end of the season.
Uninspiring, cheap and could well be our ticket to the Championship.

It's the kind of appointment that the moaning c***s will take great joy in.

[Swello]

3 minutes ago, MikeyWellFan said:

It's the kind of appointment that will please those that would've been happy to give McGhee until the end of the season.

Uninspiring, cheap and could well be our ticket to the Championship.

To be fair, that could be said about literally anyone we employed - there are 10 games to go with very little margin for error. Someone completely new to the club, regardless of pedigree could still have taken us down...

[MikeyWellFan]

Just now, Swello said:

To be fair, that could be said about literally anyone we employed - there are 10 games to go with very little margin for error. Someone completely new to the club, regardless of pedigree could still have taken us down...

I get that but a 20% win percentage at Oldham doesn't scream any kind of stability to me.

I also can't help but think that we could have found someone with more experience to deal with the ominous situation we're in.

[thisGRAEME]

If you're completely discounting that he's been at the club before, aye, instability.

[Swello]

I think we could all do with some every day glam in our life.

 

[MJC]

A poor, cheap, unimaginative and very 'Motherwell' appointment. I could have seen the logic in giving Robinson until the end of this season with a view to looking elsewhere for a permanent appointment in the summer, but I just don't see why we've appointed a guy who has already failed in part of a previous managerial regime and has just been sacked by Oldham for failing there too, on a permanent basis.

Appointing a new manager should be an opportunity for the club, but as usual we make it a problem and drag our heels then go for a cheap and totally underwhelming option.

Still, best of luck to the guy (because he's going to need it I fear)

[mjw]

It might be a little fairer on the guy if the 'he fucked up at Oldham' gang told the whole story.
A club that started the season with 7 players.
A club that owed so much money they had a transfer embargo.

Not exactly the kind of place to make a name for yourself.

[Poet of the Macabre]

Absolutely no chance he'll still be Motherwell manager at Christmas. If he keeps you up (big if) then he'll be chucked by November at the latest.

[Mr Hahn]

I realise his Oldham record wasn't great but for me the main flaw we can take from Robinson is taking that job in the first place. Had some ridiculous rebuilding job to do with a basket case club.

I don't know too much about him but all I would say is that team at Pittodrie at the weekend turned up, defended for their lives against a team that pumped 7 past them merely weeks earlier, looked organised and looked like they properly cared. He beat Killie in what was an absolutely vital game for us having been absolutely embarrassed a week ago at home to Dundee.

I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he can get our defence performing competently at least, I believe we have the attacking players to keep us up.

[Swello]

The danger, as ever with 'Well fans, is that we go overboard with the negative side. It's perfectly legitimate to be underwhelmed or even a bit worried as a result of the appointment, as it clearly carries some risks - but I can't get into the 100% negative stuff that I've read here and on Steelmen.

The club are only able to appoint from the pool of people that actually apply (or can attempt to take someone from another job at a cost) - so there is instantly a limit on who they could appoint - we simply can't force more celebrated managers to "lower themselves" to manage us. They came up with a short list, interviewed them and arrived at a decision (and remember, an interview is a 2 way thing - someone doesn't have to take a job after interviewing for it, so Robinson may not have been 1st choice from the interview stage). We don't know who 3 of the 5 were but I believe we can make some guesses as to the quality of the candidates and assume that there was no external interviewee that was in a different league to Robinson.

There is clearly an element of safety first here and the club have gone with someone who was roughly on a par with the other candidates but had the advantage of being in place and knowing the situation. With the advent of better TV deals, relegation would be extra bad and for the long term future of the club, we really need to be kicking off our 32nd season of top flight football in August rather than worrying about how to escape the Championship - and so I think there is logic in the appointment - let's give him a chance.

[capt_oats]

I found Alan Burrows comments in the Motherwell Times much more informative about Robinson's appointment than the actual PR statement the club put out tbh:

Quote

"Simo was an excellent candidate" the Motherwell supremo added.

"I spoke to him today and he was very thankful to the club for giving him the opportunity. He came very close to getting the job. I explained to Simo the significance of us getting all hands to the pump and hitting the ground running"

http://www.motherwelltimes.co.uk/sport/football/motherwell-fc/stephen-robinson-is-permanent-motherwell-gaffer-1-4393001

To me that's saying clearly that in the position we're in the view is we can't afford to allow anyone time to bed in and find their feet, possibly even the process bringing in their own staff and that the Killie and Aberdeen games were enough to convince them that Robinson was less risk.

I don't know whether it's semantics or not and it was the case we did sound him out but the information that Hughes hadn't applied for the job suggests that the only other name that had been quoted for the position wasn't actually in for it. As @thisGRAEME said there are no outstanding candidates here, in fairness even if he was interviewed Hughes would still have been a risk, look at his record thus far with Raith Rovers. People can bang on about how we should  have been looking for a fresh face or that it's the club's fault for being cheap or so on and so forth but the reality is that we're 10th in the league, 3 points off the play-off place, I think it's fair to say that a fair number of our support hugely overestimate our attractiveness as an option at the moment. Even if a name was interested, why would they run the risk of adding a relegation to their CV for the sake of 3 months work.

@Swello nails it above, the club can only appoint from the pool of people who apply (or try and sound out other candidates either in or out employment). If none of those are actually better options than an "underwhelming" option like Robinson then it begs the question "what are the club supposed to do?". It'd appear the answer for a lot of folk is simply "just make a change for the sake of it."

The fans wanted shot of McGhee and they got that, which is fair enough his position was clearly untenable and from the looks of it the players had downed tools and stopped playing. His final game confirmed that he was toxic. However in doing so there's a certain reality of circumstance there. 10th in the league having been scudded 7-2 and 5-1 in the space of a month it naturally limits the options that will be available. It'd take some amount of naivety not to acknowledge that.

The upshot is that (unless there actually was an outstanding candidate that we've somehow chosen to overlook among the 3 unnamed members of the shortlist) our position left a choice between;

- Robinson: who's already at the club, knows the players, ground out a win against Killie and oversaw a narrow loss against a side who put 7 past us previously but has a failed stint at Oldham and an association with Baraclough on his CV.

or

- Valakari: former player, who's had success in the Finnish league with a bankrolled, monied club relying on bringing in players on loan from sides such as Liverpool but hasn't had any involvement with the Scottish game in 17 years.

As I say, unless there was someone among the 5 shortlisted (or the group of applicants) who was a genuine stand out that we've overlooked then given the choice between Robinson and Valakari I really can't blame the club with going with the former.