Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

I feel like a bit of a dick following on a long post with another but meh, hopefully you'll indulge me.

Having thought a bit more about the whole idea of the board only being able to appoint those who are in for the job I thought it'd be interesting to compare the "expectations" of fans with the appointments that other clubs in the league have made and compare with Motherwell, whose board seem to be getting it tight for being "cheap" and "lacking in ambition".

Scottish Premiership managerial changes since Baraclough appointed:

Motherwell: Stuart McCall (resigned) > Ian Baraclough (sacked) > Mark McGhee (sacked) > Stephen Robinson

St Mirren: Tommy Craig (sacked) > Gary Teale

Accies: Alex Neil (to Norwich) > Martin Canning

Kilmarnock: Allan Johnstone (sacked) > Gary Locke (sacked) > Lee Clark (to Bury) > Lee McCulloch (caretaker until end of season)

Dundee United: Jackie McNamara (sacked) > Mixu Paatelainen (sacked) > Gordon Young (interim)

Celtic: Ronny Deila (resigned) > Brendan Rodgers

Inverness Caledonian Thistle: John Hughes (resigned) > Richie Foran

Heart of Midlothian: Robbie Neisen (to MK Dons) > Ian Cathro

Rangers: Mark Warburton (sacked) > Pedro Caixinha

Stripping away the likes of Celtic, Rangers (let's not forget their fans wanted Frank de Boer and ended up with Pedro "jetting" in from Qatar) and Hearts whose budgets clearly outweigh ours how many of those appointments by those teams of a similar stature to ourselves would the more vocal element of our support have been happy with? There are very few, if any that I would have imagined would have received anything near approval. Mixu, perhaps? He was certainly interested in the job however as it was McGhee turned our season round to finish 5th, Paatelainen got United relegated at Dens.

Clark was still being ridiculed as a car crash even mid-way through this season.

In truth there's absolutely nothing about the recent appointments of our contemporaries in the Premiership that suggests that we should have been expecting a manager to drop down from the English Championship to take the job and the risk involved of going for a left-field appointment makes that a difficult (and unlikely) call as well, you only have to look at Cathro as evidence of someone needing time to bed in, which is time we don't have. Even those "names" who were linked with the job; Coyle is an actual laughing stock in England while Davies is an unemployable maniac whose previous stint at the club was a precursor to our administration, so you know hardly ringing endorsements there.

Having said that I see from Onthefringes on Steelmen that the club wanted Coyle, he was into it and then reneged. If that's the case, and I genuinely I've no reason to doubt him as he's an excellent, informed poster on there, then it leaves the Robinson appointment looking even more logical (and explains the delay). The club had a #1 target, it fell through (due to circumstances outwith our control) and they've ended up having to go with an option that presents the least risk short term.

The only point I take issue with is the club trying to present Robinson as an "outstanding" candidate, obviously they have to talk him up but it'd have probably have looked a lot better if we'd presented him as offering the best means of achieving our short term goals and building a platform with a view to medium term stability.

[mjw]

I don't get the 'cheap' accusation. we're skint,we need cheap,cheap is good.
Was one administration not enough for some people?
Do we want to be the club that the **** can point at and say 'told you we'd sink you'?

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, mjw said:

I don't get the 'cheap' accusation. we're skint,we need cheap,cheap is good.
Was one administration not enough for some people?
Do we want to be the club that the **** can point at and say 'told you we'd sink you'?

Yeah, it's weird. Similarly I don't really get the whole "it's all fan ownership's fault. We need to get someone to buy the club." Like Boyle wasn't trying to do that for over a decade. Some millionaire from the 'shire is just going to come along and chuck money at the club, well...because.

[thisGRAEME]

24 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Davies is an unemployable maniac whose previous stint at the club was a precursor to our administration, so you know hardly ringing endorsements there.

He's also seen Tommy Sheridan's vinegar strokes, which makes it a very definite no from me.

[Ya Bezzer!]

7 hours ago, mjw said:

It might be a little fairer on the guy if the 'he fucked up at Oldham' gang told the whole story.
A club that started the season with 7 players.
A club that owed so much money they had a transfer embargo.

Not exactly the kind of place to make a name for yourself.

The full story would surely include that when Robinson left Oldham's form improved drastically.

[Ya Bezzer!]

20 minutes ago, mjw said:

I don't get the 'cheap' accusation. we're skint,we need cheap,cheap is good.
Was one administration not enough for some people?
Do we want to be the club that the **** can point at and say 'told you we'd sink you'?

I'm definitely in the 'cut your cloth' camp but cheap isn't good if it costs you in the long run.

No point even being in the Premiership if we aren't going to make a fist of it.  We should be looking for value for money rather than cheap.  I realise that is difficult to do in the football market but I feel like we've wasted a lot of money in the past couple of season by being 'cheap'.

[mjw]

The full story would surely include that when Robinson left Oldham's form improved drastically.

They've definitely improved but I'm still unsure of using it as stick to beat Robinson with for taking the chance going there.

As has been said we didn't get our first choice so we need to appoint someone. I'm happier with Robinson than I would have been with Hughes or Duffy.

[thisGRAEME]

I have a game! I've posted on Steelmen as well, but it seems worth sticking here too.

In short, match the statement to the sacking;

"We just wish him all the best and wish we could have done more for him the season. None of us wanted to see him out the door."

 

Quote

"The one big thing is that the results just haven't quite been there. The players and myself as the captain have got to stand up and take responsibility.

 

Quote

“That’s where the players, and myself included as the captain, must take responsibility. That’s where the disappointment lies."

 

[Swello]

All Lasley?

 

I'll go McCall, Barra & McGhee

 

[thisGRAEME]

Just now, Swello said:

All Lasley?

I'll go McCall, Barra & McGhee

Indeed, all Lasley. His statement on Gannon was a bit too obvious...

And 3/3! 

[Swello]

I guessed the Barraclough one as it came over as pretty insincere and it was clear they were glad he had been emptied. 

[Mr. Brightside]

I guess we're going to have New Balance kits next year then?

[capt_oats]

I guess we're going to have New Balance kits next year then?

Saw that tweet. Though it's easy to draw that conclusion it actually looked a bit more like NB were throwing them some product in exchange for some promo via the club socials (not that I imagine Motherwell are a huge *influencer* I suppose).

 

Macron don't do boots and the posts did seem quite boot-centric (though it did mention other "equipment). The whole thing also gave folk on Facebook a tap in when it came to slagging off the players. So that was nice. Small price to pay for some free boots I suppose.

How long was the Macron deal anyway? I'd have thought a new manufacturer would be the sort of thing the club would want to roll out with teasers and a reveal for "engagement" rather than just papping out some photos of the players looking at some fluorescent boots.

Edit: having read the (pretty transparent) spiel on the official site it definitely reads like a blag rather than anything else. Which is fair enough, everyone likes free stuff.

[Casagolda]

Speaking of next season, I see over by they're having a discussion on next seasons squad. As far as I can see it currently looks like;

2019

Chris Cadden, Richard Tait, Elliot Frear, Jack McMillan, Jake Hastie, Ross Maclean, David Turnbull & Alan Campbell 

2018

Louis Moult, Dom Thomas, Luke Watt, Stevie Hammell, Stephen McManus, Jacob Blyth, Ryan Bowman, Carl McHugh, Craig Clay & Ben Heneghan.

Out of Contract  

Craig Samson, Kieran Kennedy, David Ferguson, Joe Chalmers, Stephen Pearson, Lionel Ainsworth, Scott McDonald, Craig Moore, Lee Lucas & Keith Lasley.

We've got 10 players out of contract(plus Griffiths & Jules loans end) and see outside of McDonald, would you bother offering a new deal to any of them? Cause I doubt I would, no matter what division we're in next season. If anything there's a few more I'd be looking to move on who aren't out of contract, which says a lot for the squad we've assembled.

Pretty sure McDonald will finally be away this summer anyway, last chance to sell Moult as well if we can. So we could/should be looking at a total rebuild next season. 

On a positive note, it's good to see almost all of our best young prospects tied up long term.

[well fan for life]

19 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Speaking of next season, I see over by they're having a discussion on next seasons squad. As far as I can see it currently looks like;

2019

Chris Cadden, Richard Tait, Elliot Frear, Jack McMillan, Jake Hastie, Ross Maclean, David Turnbull & Alan Campbell 

2018

Louis Moult, Dom Thomas, Luke Watt, Stevie Hammell, Stephen McManus, Jacob Blyth, Ryan Bowman, Carl McHugh, Craig Clay & Ben Heneghan.

Out of Contract  

Craig Samson, Kieran Kennedy, David Ferguson, Joe Chalmers, Stephen Pearson, Lionel Ainsworth, Scott McDonald, Craig Moore, Lee Lucas & Keith Lasley.

We've got 10 players out of contract(plus Griffiths & Jules loans end) and see outside of McDonald, would you bother offering a new deal to any of them? Cause I doubt I would, no matter what division we're in next season. If anything there's a few more I'd be looking to move on who aren't out of contract, which says a lot for the squad we've assembled.

Pretty sure McDonald will finally be away this summer anyway, last chance to sell Moult as well if we can. So we could/should be looking at a total rebuild next season. 

On a positive note, it's good to see almost all of our best young prospects tied up long term.

I would renew Lionel Ainsworth's contract because I love him and will be absolutely devastated when he leaves.

Willing to accept that there is absolutely no footballing logic involved in that thought process.

[thisGRAEME]

19 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I would renew Lionel Ainsworth's contract because I love him and will be absolutely devastated when he leaves.

Willing to accept that there is absolutely no footballing logic involved in that thought process.

I'd take him on a 'TV Games only' deal. Like those lads on the wrestling that turn up once every 2 months for the money day.

[capt_oats]

18 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Speaking of next season, I see over by they're having a discussion on next seasons squad. As far as I can see it currently looks like;

2019

Chris Cadden, Richard Tait, Elliot Frear, Jack McMillan, Jake Hastie, Ross Maclean, David Turnbull & Alan Campbell 

2018

Louis Moult, Dom Thomas, Luke Watt, Stevie Hammell, Stephen McManus, Jacob Blyth, Ryan Bowman, Carl McHugh, Craig Clay & Ben Heneghan.

Out of Contract  

Craig Samson, Kieran Kennedy, David Ferguson, Joe Chalmers, Stephen Pearson, Lionel Ainsworth, Scott McDonald, Craig Moore, Lee Lucas & Keith Lasley.

We've got 10 players out of contract (plus Griffiths & Jules loans end) and see outside of McDonald, would you bother offering a new deal to any of them? Cause I doubt I would, no matter what division we're in next season. If anything there's a few more I'd be looking to move on who aren't out of contract, which says a lot for the squad we've assembled.

Pretty sure McDonald will finally be away this summer anyway, last chance to sell Moult as well if we can. So we could/should be looking at a total rebuild next season. 

On a positive note, it's good to see almost all of our best young prospects tied up long term.

Difficult to argue with any of that tbh. I kind of alluded to it the other day but I'd hope that this season has been an eye opener for those in charge particularly in terms of recruitment and the general faults in the side (of which there are many). There's a lot of things that the club do well but actually taking ownership of things and acknowledging or identifying problem areas isn't one of them IMO.

Even last season, despite finishing 5th, our goal difference was -16, OK, you could be generous and overlook the 6-0 and 7-0 as outliers (call them freak results) even without them it's still a negative GD. This season is even worse by a considerable margin while the 14/15 season was -25. That'll be 3 seasons straight we'll have finished with a negative goal difference. Even the last season we finished 2nd under McCall we were only +4 compared with Aberdeen and Dundee United below us who were both +15.

Looking at that list of OOC players and I agree, beyond McDonald it's difficult to put forward an argument for keeping any of them in a playing capacity. The fact that we were actively looking at Ciftci as a potential replacement for McDonald rather than someone from the National League at least suggests we acknowledge that McDonald is a key player to the side.

I noticed that Ripley was voted as the GK in the League 1 team of the season for Oldham. While I'm not going to rewrite his time at Motherwell and suggest he was outstanding or on par with the likes of Ruddy and Randolph once he found his feet he was a decent 'keeper and for me the drop off between this season and last suggests that the decision to stick with Samson as #1 this season has been a huge error in judgement on the part of McGhee.

That looks like I'm dumping the whole season's failures on Samson, I'm not, the whole side have been complicit in what has been an absolute shambles however any successful side starts from the back and most, if not all, have a solid goalkeeper. It's surely no coincidence that Thistle's results have improved since Cerny came back for example. It looks to me like we've offered Samson reduced terms last summer (as we did with McManus, Lasley, Hammell et al) simply because he was already at the club and "experienced", he's accepted the deal on the proviso that he gets regular games and we've just thought "well, how bad can he be?" and weighed up what we're paying him, his "experience" vs having to look for another goalkeeper (given we wouldn't have had a senior goalkeeper on the books). It hasn't worked to our advantage.

Ainsworth's a weird one, everyone knows the ability he has but unless something remarkable happens in the next 10 games he just seems so far out the picture I can't see it being in anyone's interest for him to renew. Having watched Chalmers get utterly rinsed by a bunch of teenagers in the 20s game against Thistle the other week and Craigan tearing strips off him from the touchline the club could have just cancelled his contract on the final whistle with some justification.

The positives are of course that the best of the u20s are tied up on longer term deals and whether it's Robinson or someone else, whoever is in charge at the start of next season will actually have a fair amount of scope to rebuild.

[thisGRAEME]

7 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Difficult to argue with any of that tbh. I kind of alluded to it the other day but I'd hope that this season has been an eye opener for those in charge particularly in terms of recruitment and the general faults in the side (of which there are many). There's a lot of things that the club do well but actually taking ownership of things and acknowledging or identifying problem areas isn't one of them IMO.

Yep.

For me the club is far too 'pally'. Like, it's been a great advantage for us to have that level of consistency throughout the team for so long, but f**k, there has to be a time where they are let go. As I've said, I find it really concerning that we've been through the same scenario with management changes multiple times now, and the players that you'd imagine were a big part of that are now still at the club for the long term as coaches?

Not a big fan. 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

Yep. For me the club is far too 'pally'. Like, it's been a great advantage for us to have that level of consistency throughout the team for so long, but f**k, there has to be a time where they are let go.

As I've said, I find it really concerning that we've been through the same scenario with management changes multiple times now, and the players that you'd imagine were a big part of that are now still at the club for the long term as coaches?

Not a big fan.

Aye, from the look of things it seems to be the case that we'd rather stick with the same core and hope that they get better than concede that maybe the issue is a bit more blunt. There's an odd "untouchable" aspect to the side there that's not particularly healthy.

I can understand giving them the benefit of the doubt to an extent, we may have been on the slide in McCall's last full season but we still finished 2nd, the play-off season was...well, we all saw it, there's an argument there that you might hope that it was a one-off similar to the Malpas season. However last season started poorly and had to be was salvaged. This season's continuing in the same vein and has obviously yet to be saved. Even if we scrape enough points to stay up then it'd be difficult to view this season in a positive light.

There's a fine line between acknowledging the inconsistency you'll naturally get with a budget like Motherwell's along with a business model where integrating young players to the first team is key and the fact that there may be fundamental issues that need addressed on the playing side. I'd hope the past 3 seasons is enough for the club to approach this summer with a bit of genuine perspective when they're appraising things.

Edited March 22, 2017 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

Honestly can't think of many worse decisions than giving Hammell a 2 year deal. He's been great for us but the last few years he struggles to put any run of games together without his legs coming off.

Out of those who are out of contract really only McDonald merits an attempt to extend it. But there's no chance of that actually happening. Can see him shipping off to Australia like has been rumoured for a while now.

I seen someone on Steelmen Online ranting about the number of injuries we've had this season. I would probably say we've had no more injuries than anyone else in the league. We just happened to have injuries/suspensions to our entire first choice back 4 at the same time.