Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Gianfranco]

Pretty random I know but is there any need for the 'and athletic' part of our club's name?

[ropy]

Tom Mckean?

[Gianfranco]

I had to google who that was.

[ropy]

A road sweeper if I remember correctly , athletic though

Edited May 19, 2017 by ropy

[capt_oats]

Letting us down gently there about Lionel. It looks like the squad is getting properly emptied right enough.

[well fan for life]

16 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Letting us down gently there about Lionel. It looks like the squad is getting properly emptied right enough.
 

[Afrojim]

25 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Letting us down gently there about Lionel. It looks like the squad is getting properly emptied right enough.
 

So that'll be Ainsworth and McDonald away then. That leaves 9 players who's playing contracts are up at the end of the season...

Samson, Chalmers, Ferguson, Lasley, Pearson, Lucas, MacLean, Moore & McFadden. I'm not sure how many of these players will stay?

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Afrojim said:

So that'll be Ainsworth and McDonald away then. That leaves 9 players who's playing contracts are up at the end of the season...

Samson, Chalmers, Ferguson, Lasley, Pearson, Lucas, MacLean, Moore & McFadden. I'm not sure how many of these players will stay?

MacLean signed a new deal until 2019 a while back. http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/12/07/ross-maclean-signs-extension/

Samson, Chalmers, Lucas will be catapulted straight into the sun.

I'd have thought Pearson would be looking at India again given he won the league over there last season and he's got ages until their season starts to allow him to get over his injury. In fact he'd probably be able to do a pre-season with us.

Lasley I could see being offered some sort of player/coach gig and he and Craigan do a great job with the u20s but if he still wants to play regularly you'd think he'd need to drop a level as McHugh's essentially his replacement and Campbell's in a similar mould.

Moore and Ferguson would probably benefit from dropping a level and getting regular games tbh.

McFadden? Who knows? I still get the feeling he was never really convinced by the assistant role but it was mutually beneficial in so much as the club got to keep him around and he got to give coaching a shot. If you listen back to his interviews when he got the job he was still talking about wanting to contribute on the playing side. He never really sounded like someone for whom coaching was on his agenda at this point.

There's possibly an argument that Robinson may benefit from having a more experienced assistant alongside him anyway tbh.

Edit: Some quite revealing comments from Robinson in the press the other day;

Quote

"Big decisions need to be made, difficult decisions need to be made, both on the playing side and in and around the football club.

I never want this on my watch again. I've inherited 14 players with 4 over 35 on 2 year contracts.

Some of those boys we'll need to see where they are in terms of coaching badges and what we do with them in and around the club.

We want to maintain an identity, but I have to stress I can't keep every single ex-player or legend."

I reckon "I've inherited 14 players with 4 over 35 on 2 year contracts." is a misquote; he's inherited 4 over 34 (Hammell, McManus, Lasley & Pearson) but only 2 are on 2 year deals. Either way though...bold.

Edited May 20, 2017 by capt_oats

[Afrojim]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

MacLean signed a new deal until 2019 a while back. http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/12/07/ross-maclean-signs-extension/

Samson, Chalmers, Lucas will be catapulted straight into the sun.

I'd have thought Pearson would be looking at India again given he won the league over there last season and he's got ages until their season starts to allow him to get over his injury. In fact he'd probably be able to do a pre-season with us.

Lasley I could see being offered some sort of player/coach gig and he and Craigan do a great job with the u20s but if he still wants to play regularly you'd think he'd need to drop a level as McHugh's essentially his replacement and Campbell's in a similar mould.

Moore and Ferguson would probably benefit from dropping a level and getting regular games tbh.

McFadden? Who knows? I still get the feeling he was never really convinced by the assistant role but it was mutually beneficial in so much as the club got to keep him around and he got to give coaching a shot. If you listen back to his interviews when he got the job he was still talking about wanting to contribute on the playing side. He never really sounded like someone for whom coaching was on his agenda at this point.

There's possibly an argument that Robinson may benefit from having a more experienced assistant alongside him anyway tbh.

Edit: Some quite revealing comments from Robinson in the press the other day;

I reckon "I've inherited 14 players with 4 over 35 on 2 year contracts." is a misquote; he's inherited 4 over 34 (Hammell, McManus, Lasley & Pearson) but only 2 are on 2 year deals. Either way though...bold.

I wouldn't be overly disappointed if none of those players signed on for us again. Obviously Griffiths, Pain & Jules' loan deals will be up as well and Tom Fry is being released from the development squad. We had 27 players in the first team squad this season. If all the players whose contracts are running out combined with the loan players and Fry leaving then that leaves us 14 first team players and the development squad. I'm not sure how many players from the development squad will be staying on but if you combine both squads together then that is 27 players. I wouldn't be disappointed if Hammell and Clay left either and i'd be happy to see the back of Blyth.

Being realistic about it, it looks like Dundee United are probably going to be coming up with Hibs and that probably pushes us further down the league standings. We'll likely be tussling with Ross County, Dundee and Killie down the bottom end of the table again. Our transfer policy of trying to uncover hidden gems from the lower leagues in England hasn't really worked, for every Moult and Johnson there has been many players that haven't added anything to the team. Our loan signings have been mediocre at best and as Robinson said there the club can't keep re-signing players just because they used to play for the club. We can try and sign a raft of players but I don't see how we're going to be able to get a load of players better than that which we already have. Robinson has already got many of the young players involved in the squad and there comes a time when you just have to throw them into the team and see how they get on, usually we all end up pleasantly surprised when that happens and many of them generate large transfer fees as well as developing the team. Here's the squad we would have if we combined the remaining first team players with the development squad...

Goalkeepers

Peter Morrison (u20), Jamie Stevenson (u17)

Defenders

Stephen McManus, Ben Heneghan, Carl McHugh, Adam Livingstone (u20), Barry Maguire (u20), Stevie Hammell, Jack McMillan (u20), Luke Watt (u20)

Midfielders

Allan Campbell (u20), Craig Clay, Shea Gordon (u20), David Turnbull (u20), Elliott Frear, Jordon Armstrong (u20), Jake Hastie (u20), Chris Cadden (u20), Ross MacLean (u20), Dom Thomas, Josh Moore (u20)

Forwards

Louis Moult, Ryan Bowman, Jacob Blyth, Dylan Falconer (u20), James Scott (u20), Dylan Mackin (u20)

[ropy]

I doubt Chris Cadden can be U20 forever

[capt_oats]

5 hours ago, Afrojim said:

I wouldn't be overly disappointed if none of those players signed on for us again. Obviously Griffiths, Pain & Jules' loan deals will be up as well and Tom Fry is being released from the development squad. We had 27 players in the first team squad this season. If all the players whose contracts are running out combined with the loan players and Fry leaving then that leaves us 14 first team players and the development squad. I'm not sure how many players from the development squad will be staying on but if you combine both squads together then that is 27 players. I wouldn't be disappointed if Hammell and Clay left either and i'd be happy to see the back of Blyth.

Being realistic about it, it looks like Dundee United are probably going to be coming up with Hibs and that probably pushes us further down the league standings. We'll likely be tussling with Ross County, Dundee and Killie down the bottom end of the table again. Our transfer policy of trying to uncover hidden gems from the lower leagues in England hasn't really worked, for every Moult and Johnson there has been many players that haven't added anything to the team. Our loan signings have been mediocre at best and as Robinson said there the club can't keep re-signing players just because they used to play for the club. We can try and sign a raft of players but I don't see how we're going to be able to get a load of players better than that which we already have. Robinson has already got many of the young players involved in the squad and there comes a time when you just have to throw them into the team and see how they get on, usually we all end up pleasantly surprised when that happens and many of them generate large transfer fees as well as developing the team.

Disagree (sort of) that the transfer policy hasn't really worked, for me it has and it hasn't.

The players brought in for the first team have been fine. McHugh's been excellent and is future captain material, Tait may be quite suspect defensively but his delivery is superb and offers a lot to the team, Frear has come in is improving game by game and has contributed to a load of our goals recently, Heneghan (for all I have my doubts that he'll actually improve) has been alright and he's only missed one game all season. Bowman's found it tough I grant you but that's not a bad list of successes in terms of people who have been brought to the club as first choice players. OK, we may not flip them for £1m+ but they've all shown they have something to offer at this level. Even big clown shoes Bowman has shown glimpses of potential. For me the players we've recruited as first choice starters haven't been the issue.

Where the transfer policy has categorically failed (IMO) is when you start getting into the players brought in to supplement the squad and for me this is a problem. It's up for debate as to whether Clay would have played as much had McHugh's head not exploded but either way he was on trial at the club for a good few weeks and we signed him anyway, Lucas was at the club for over a month on trial and we signed him anyway (twice), Brill wasn't in any shape to give Samson competition, (Christ! Samson himself was at the club for almost a full season, only played 2 games and we retained him and made him first choice!), it's difficult to see anything in Blyth's track record that made him worth recruiting let alone give him a 2 year deal with a 1 year option, Luka Belic lasted 45 mins of a dev league game against Hamilton before being hooked and locked in a cupboard somewhere.

Yes, we're working to a budget so there's a certain market we're recruiting from but it seems like there's either an underestimation in terms of the level of player we need to supplement the squad and I suppose it's a concern that in the case of Clay and Lucas we had them at the club long enough to take a good look at them, it's not just like they were players we've signed on the basis of a couple of highlights reels from WyScout and they turn out to be duds. They were actually at the club and we've thought "could do a job?".

If the "strategy" is to work then it's up to the club & management to be honest in their appraisals and learn from that. In fairness to Robinson, that certainly seems to be the case having read his recent comments. It's not a new issue but squaring the circle between recruiting players simply as bodies to fill jerseys and possibly having a bit more faith in the u20s to contribute is something that probably needs addressed. The fact that at 18 Campbell has come in and followed in Cadden's footsteps and shown he can his own in the first team which should be encouraging as to whether players in the u20s can make an impression on the first team. He's shown more in his appearances than someone like Clay. However others who have stepped up from the u20s like Ferguson and McMillan have been utterly roasted in games. I suppose it's about working to find that balance.

Incidentally from that squad list Josh Moore left the club in the first half of the season. http://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2016/09/08/josh-moore-departs-the-club/ 

Edited May 20, 2017 by capt_oats

[s_dog]

On 19/05/2017 at 09:34, Swello said:

I see the record is making a big deal about McDonald leaving - I wouldn't call something that every Motherwell fan on the planet has been expecting "sensational". Maybe Keith Jackson doesn't pay attention outside of Rangers and Celtic.

Sensational because he won't be appearing on Sportsound any more if he's off.

[Ron Aldo]

I must be the only one to like Craig Clay and I think he does a job. Maybe he shouldn't be a starter every week but he's a good squad player and, for me, he's definitely contributed more than Pearson has since he came back.

[MJC]

Thank f**k that season is over.

The one and only positive to take from it was that we managed to avoid the drop but I fear that unless we get our rebuilding job absolutely spot on in the summer then we will only be delaying relegation for a year, with Hibs and probably Dundee Utd back in the top flight next season I can see things being pretty grim for us.

2016/2017 has to go down as one of the worst seasons I've ever experienced following Motherwell FC. A dreadful squad full of aging players in their 2nd or even 3rd spell with the club, a manager for the most part who treated the job and the club with contempt, zero consitency, dreadful football, crowds diminishing and out of both Cups at the first hurdle yet again.

An absolutely turgid campaign.

[mjw]

What is it you want from the club?
You moaned like f**k during our decent seasons and moan like f**k when we are at the other end of the table.
Help us out here,what do you want from following Motherwell?

[thisGRAEME]

2 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

I must be the only one to like Craig Clay and I think he does a job. Maybe he shouldn't be a starter every week but he's a good squad player and, for me, he's definitely contributed more than Pearson has since he came back.

I'm on board with this, tbh. He could do with upping the speed of his play a bit, but I think he's fine.

[Desp]

An absolutely turgid campaign, I cannot disagree with. That's two of the last three that have been the same.

 

Delaying the inevitable relegation? Not sure I agree with that? Even if Dundee Utd come up, who's to say they'll be any good? They were shite the last time they were up at this level.

 

A big rebuilding job required, and I'm glad to hear some of the things the manager has said so far. I'll be surprised if ANY of the out of contract players are kept on.

 

If we can build a team around Tait, Cadden, Campbell, McHugh and Frear, I think we'll do ok.

 

That's three quarters of a defence, a goalkeeper and a new front two all needed, so it's some rebuilding job. All the best to the gaffer. He'll need it.

 

Anyway, who's starting the 17/18 thread? Get this one in the bin.

 

 

[mjw]

An absolutely turgid campaign, I cannot disagree with. That's two of the last three that have been the same.

It was turgid beyond belief most of the time. It wasn't any secret though that this was a season where we just had to stay in the top division.
Hopefully things are settled the extra TV money and any transfer cash could see an improvement next season.

[MJC]

2 minutes ago, mjw said:

What is it you want from the club?
You moaned like f**k during our decent seasons and moan like f**k when we are at the other end of the table.
Help us out here,what do you want from following Motherwell?

What I want from the club is for us to be as good as we possibly can be and do as well as we possibly can. I have seen no evidence of either this season, or the last few where there has been zero entertainment, a seemingly obsessive desire to re-sign aging ex-players rather than focus on developing our own players via our youth systems and no domestic Cup runs, something which is vital to clubs like ours.

In our 'decent' seasons I gave the team the credit they were due but our Cup records during that period under McCall were disgraceful and I look back on that period as a massive missed opportunity for us to actually win something and rid ourselves of this small time mentality that we have. For all we did superbly at times in the league during this period, the Cup failures were a massive black mark against us during that time.

I support Motherwell hoping to see us thrive as a club and aim to be the best we possibly can and ultimately, win something.

[mjw]

a seemingly obsessive desire to re-sign aging ex-players rather than focus on developing our own players via our youth systems

Winning the u20 cup might suggest we are going in the right direction with this.
The returning player habit has to change though we're agreed on that.