Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ropy]

I've arranged a trip down South for work given that there was no game to go to, this was after the fixture had been rearranged

[Busta Nut]

5 hours ago, Desp said:

I've heard there's a bit of interest in the lad McKinstry.  Leeds Utd, for one.

I see his maw and da quite regularly as they're big 'well fans. It was his first start today.

[capt_oats]

Copy & paste from FirParkCorner. The bold Andy_P has also posted a more comprehensive summary over on Steelmen.

Interesting to read that by the end of the year the WS will be the largest creditor after repayments to Boyle & Hutchison.

Quote

Motherwell FC held its 113th Annual General Meeting at Fir Park on Monday.  With the best financial results in the club's history under discussion the shareholders were in confident mood.

The board was joined by more than 60 of an audience as club chairman Jim McMahon outlined the happy circumstances that had delivered the bumper boost to the coffers.

He was clearly delighted to be able to report a £1.72 profit on the year, an event that he felt was unlikely to be repeated.  He explained that it required every aspect of the club to be in perfect harmony and a bit of good fortune to produce such strong results. Nevertheless, the board was engaged in a rigorous examination of the club's practices to ensure future sustainability.

When questioned about the modest decrease in debt (£2.2m down to £1.8m) he explained that the flow of funds from the Well Society was listed as debt in the accounts and added that the amount owed to the two previous owners was set fall by the end of the year.  The Society would become the largest creditor.

Some discussion followed concerning the cost of maintaining ageing stadium.  The Hunter stand roof had been replaced and along with pitch enhancements and the new scoreboard there was an increase of £200k to almost £400k.  There will be an ongoing drain on our funds to keep the old ground up to the required specification.  The board continue to keep themselves aware of the possibility of some future move to a new stadium.

Stephen Robinson was happy to discuss football matters and gave some insights into his preparations for the forthcoming transfer window.  He has an eye on several targets and recognised the need for wide players.  He is well aware of what we need. 

Discussions are continuing about a contract extension with David Turnbull.  Asked about the tiring effects of international duties for Alan Campbell and Chris Cadden, the manager explained that the experience was beneficial but it had to be managed.  He gave a report on the slow progress of Craig Tanner and was asked to pass on best wished to Trevor Carson.

The meeting ended leaving time for some informal chat.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by capt_oats

[Swello]

I was interested in the mention of Ravenscraig as I kind of assumed that was off the agenda these days but I guess there comes a point where the maintenance on Fir Park starts to put us at a disadvantage or hurts the sustainability of the funding model. I didn't get the impression that anything is at a detailed stage of planning though, so I doubt we're off soon.

Colts was interesting for the fact that the club are clearly very much in favour from a football perspective and it will be resourcing it that will likely be the stumbling block. 

The part about the status of the 'Well society becoming the largest creditor was a point that I had never fully considered. I had assumed that this would happen eventually but I had never really appreciated that this would confer certain rights (ie - if we ever slipped into admin again for example). The upshot would be that the club will continue to report a debt even when Boyle and Hutchinson are paid off - although clearly that debt is the softest possible type as it is owed to the Well society (ie - the type that is probably never paid back)

SR got a notably easy time of it in his Q&A - I'm sure the improved form recently (and the unexpected win on Saturday) contributed to that  

 

[BigTamMuller]

The Ravenscraig mention was quite intriguing as well, came almost unprompted too, but I suppose as time goes by, Fir Park will only become more and more expensive to maintain. Not seen it written down on either Fir Park Corner or the SO post, but I’m sure a figure of £250k was quoted for a replacement tannoy system!

Didn’t get too much from Robbo that he hasn’t either said or alluded to already in the press. Agree with Swello though, you can’t help but feel he got an easier time of it than he perhaps would have a month or so ago!

Interesting to hear that Turnbull has KB’d 4 offers from us already! There was definitely another dig in there at his agent too!

[ONeils4Oyarder]

The thought of moving the Club to Ravenscraig (or anywhere else, out of town for that matter), gives me the absolute fear

[Desp]

1 hour ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

The thought of moving the Club to Ravenscraig (or anywhere else, out of town for that matter), gives me the absolute fear

To be fair, it's not a million miles away.  I'm not sure if they have a place in mind, but if you say you stick a stadium next to where the College sits, then it's still walkable from where Fir Park is now.  You can just leave Club 100 at 2:30pm rather than 2:58pm...

Considering how many houses they are planning on building in that area, it's a chance to tap into potential fans as well. 

[Casagolda]

Anybody else get the impression Turnbull’s a goner then, or is just me? 

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

Anybody else get the impression Turnbull’s a goner then, or is just me? 

I'm getting that impression as well tbh. The longer this goes on I can see him wanting to go somewhere else.

[Desp]

He should be given until the start of January to decide either way.  If he chooses to leave, as is his right, I'd be bombing back to the u20's for the rest of the season.  If he's daft enough to move to a bigger club on the back of a dozen appearances at Premiership level, he'll be playing U23 football in England for the duration of his contract.

[ONeils4Oyarder]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

To be fair, it's not a million miles away.  I'm not sure if they have a place in mind, but if you say you stick a stadium next to where the College sits, then it's still walkable from where Fir Park is now.  You can just leave Club 100 at 2:30pm rather than 2:58pm...

Considering how many houses they are planning on building in that area, it's a chance to tap into potential fans as well. 

It'll still be 'out-of-town' even at that side of the development...the speed of the development itself is a worry too - while we should be looking to 'tap-in' to any new developments within a reasonable radius of our current address anyway. These new builds are generally, almost always (certainly at our level), totally shite as well...

 

...I totally get that the Clubs viewpoint is that Fir Park costs a lot to maintain, but as far as I can see the cutting of costs would be the only benefit. Maybe its only me, and maybe I'm a stuck in my ways traditionalist, but as someone that almost never bothered buying my season tickets this year, I reckon moving to a flat-pack stadium in the middle of a few housing developments would potentially be my tipping point.

[ONeils4Oyarder]

5 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I'm getting that impression as well tbh. The longer this goes on I can see him wanting to go somewhere else.

It depends where that 'somewhere else' will be I suppose...his agent seems to be the driver in these contract talks, so he has maybe heard of a few whispers. If the boy is as talented as is believed to be and he has the option to go and earn a life changing amount of money then I can see why he'd be, at the very least, considering it. Lee Erwin seems to be an example of how not to do it on the messageboards, but its factually accurate to say that Erwin, by leaving Motherwell, more or less set himself up financially for life. Had Slane not been an utter fanny of a boy, and brought up by a fanny of a da', he had the possibility of being in the same boat. Ben Hall, was probably earning £500 a week at Fir Park, as soon as Brighton offered him a 3year deal at 5k a week, as a 19 year old? I can see why he took it.

 

From what I can gather, Turnbull is a Motherwell fan through and through, from a family of Motherwell fans, but you've got to take that emotional attachment out of the equation and look at it objectively. Does he stay here, earning decent money for a kid his age, progress and learn more about his trade, potentially go down the Cadden route of limited progression, or worse risk injury, to then look back on it 10 years down the line and say, i wish I had taken that chance now...that chance to go and set himself up for life financially.

 

I'm honestly not sure what I'd do, or what advice I'd give him

[Swello]

1 minute ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

I totally get that the Clubs viewpoint is that Fir Park costs a lot to maintain, but as far as I can see the cutting of costs would be the only benefit. Maybe its only me, and maybe I'm a stuck in my ways traditionalist, but as someone that almost never bothered buying my season tickets this year, I reckon moving to a flat-pack stadium in the middle of a few housing developments would potentially be my tipping point.

I don't live in Motherwell, so I need to drive an hour to home games anyway, so the location doesn't affect me personally, however - I put a huge importance on clubs being an integral part of the town they represent and there lies the risk of moving from your traditional home. Football isn't always about financial logic (for supporters) and I honestly can't think of a new build/out of town effort that I actually like.

Bottom line is that if any new ground (as is incredibly likely) resembles what St Mirren or St Johnstone have, I'd pick the ramshackle effort we have now any day. I'd assume a piecemeal redevelopment of Fir Park as has happened at Tynecastle and Easter Rd would be a non-starter due to cost - but it would be nice if that was an option...

[ONeils4Oyarder]

1 minute ago, Swello said:

I don't live in Motherwell, so I need to drive an hour to home games anyway, so the location doesn't affect me personally, however - I put a huge importance on clubs being an integral part of the town they represent and there lies the risk of moving from your traditional home. Football isn't always about financial logic (for supporters) and I honestly can't think of a new build/out of town effort that I actually like.

Bottom line is that if any new ground (as is incredibly likely) resembles what St Mirren or St Johnstone have, I'd pick the ramshackle effort we have now any day. I'd assume a piecemeal redevelopment of Fir Park as has happened at Tynecastle and Easter Rd would be a non-starter due to cost - but it would be nice if that was an option...

Surely its the main stand that costs us the most amount of cash? If so, is there a way around about that? A re-build similar to what Hearts have done on a smaller scale...I don't believe that moving away from Fir Park Street is the only long-term solution

[Desp]

As much as a rebuilt Fir Park would be ideal, there's no way we can afford it.  The Main Stand is the big one, but the East Stand requires a wee bit of upkeep too I'd have thought (wasn't there also chat about how shoddily the South Stand was thrown up?)

The thing is though, if we build a new stadium, we'd have the money from the sale of the land at Fir Park to play with, along with potentially Government/Council assistance and even selling naming rights to the ground.  If we redo Fir Park, the funds would have to come from us alone, and we don't have that kind of money, or the fanbase like Hearts to assist with funding it.

It's a non-starter unfortunately. 

I do take O'Neills40Yarder's point though.  I've been a Motherwell boy all my life, so it's always been walkable.  It was 20 minutes away from the house I grew up in and it's now a 3 minute walk from where I live now.  Would I be discouraged if it was in Ravenscraig?  I wouldn't like to think so.  Would I be if it was a St. Mirren Park type effort.  Every chance.

[nsr]

52 minutes ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

It depends where that 'somewhere else' will be I suppose...his agent seems to be the driver in these contract talks, so he has maybe heard of a few whispers. If the boy is as talented as is believed to be and he has the option to go and earn a life changing amount of money then I can see why he'd be, at the very least, considering it. Lee Erwin seems to be an example of how not to do it on the messageboards, but its factually accurate to say that Erwin, by leaving Motherwell, more or less set himself up financially for life. Had Slane not been an utter fanny of a boy, and brought up by a fanny of a da', he had the possibility of being in the same boat. Ben Hall, was probably earning £500 a week at Fir Park, as soon as Brighton offered him a 3year deal at 5k a week, as a 19 year old? I can see why he took it.

 

From what I can gather, Turnbull is a Motherwell fan through and through, from a family of Motherwell fans, but you've got to take that emotional attachment out of the equation and look at it objectively. Does he stay here, earning decent money for a kid his age, progress and learn more about his trade, potentially go down the Cadden route of limited progression, or worse risk injury, to then look back on it 10 years down the line and say, i wish I had taken that chance now...that chance to go and set himself up for life financially.

 

I'm honestly not sure what I'd do, or what advice I'd give him

Has any player ever left us at such an incredibly early stage of his career and gone on to better things in the medium or long term?

[well fan for life]

10 minutes ago, nsr said:

Has any player ever left us at such an incredibly early stage of his career and gone on to better things in the medium or long term?

#DT23

[ONeils4Oyarder]

19 minutes ago, nsr said:

Has any player ever left us at such an incredibly early stage of his career and gone on to better things in the medium or long term?

McClair, McFadden and McAllister were all 20 years old when they left us...Turnbull will be 20 in the Summer. From a financial point of view, Erwin most recently.

[Desp]

4 minutes ago, ONeils4Oyarder said:

McClair, McFadden and McAllister were all 20 years old when they left us...Turnbull will be 20 in the Summer. From a financial point of view, Erwin most recently.

And he's still not learned.  Was finally getting settled again and playing well in the Killie team before leaving for the riches of fucking Iranian football where, to the shock of absolutely nae c*nt, he's bailed out after a few months.

[ONeils4Oyarder]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

As much as a rebuilt Fir Park would be ideal, there's no way we can afford it.  The Main Stand is the big one, but the East Stand requires a wee bit of upkeep too I'd have thought (wasn't there also chat about how shoddily the South Stand was thrown up?)

The thing is though, if we build a new stadium, we'd have the money from the sale of the land at Fir Park to play with, along with potentially Government/Council assistance and even selling naming rights to the ground.  If we redo Fir Park, the funds would have to come from us alone, and we don't have that kind of money, or the fanbase like Hearts to assist with funding it.

It's a non-starter unfortunately. 

I do take O'Neills40Yarder's point though.  I've been a Motherwell boy all my life, so it's always been walkable.  It was 20 minutes away from the house I grew up in and it's now a 3 minute walk from where I live now.  Would I be discouraged if it was in Ravenscraig?  I wouldn't like to think so.  Would I be if it was a St. Mirren Park type effort.  Every chance.

How big does our main stand really need to be though? By rebuilding it, could we make it smaller, could we make it for hospitality and directors only? I don't know the answer to any of these things, I'm just thinking out loud. The selling of naming rights to the ground, to the new main stand could still be done at Fir Park. Could we sell the pitch at the back of the east stand, to a housing developer to help raise income, can we approach the local authority and allow them access to use the facilities in a new stand, if they participate in financing it. Accies seem to have a good relationship with SLC and other government bodies, why can't we with NLC? 

 

The East Stand, is what it is, I'd imagine it'll cost a bit here and there to upkeep, but I wouldn't imagine it'll be astronomical (apart from major works like re-roofing).

 

As far as I'm concerned, leaving Fir Park should be the last resort, not first choice. Ravenscraig (and really thats the only alternative location in the vicinity), is a soulless, desolate, windy place, I'm surprised people are buying houses on it to be honest.