Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

33 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I thought Robinson's post match comments about the final third came across as being more about Main than anything. Even allowing for the change in role I can't see Robinson being convinced after this season. He's shown in the past that he can be ruthless as far as moving on players from the squad goes and he's given Main every chance really.

I don't think Scott's ready to lead the line over the course of a season and I wouldn't be surprised if we took the same approach with him as we did with Hastie and got him out on loan next season. Having said that, if we end up bottom six and he has made some sort of decision on Main then I don't see any real issue with giving Scott a run of starts. 

I'd like to think that with 8 games to go and the league looking as it is that Robinson would be looking to next season now.

Main will be gone at the end of the season and I can't say I'm too fussed about it tbh. He's improved in recent times to a degree but 3 goals all season when he's been the first choice striker is really just nowhere near good enough. 

I would like to see more of Scott in the next 8 games. There's no real harm in it and it'll give him a bit of experience in leading the line. I do expect he'll be sent out on loan to a Championship team to get kicked about a bit and I'd love to see him come back ready to fight for a place in the team. 

If it were up to me I'd probably send Scott on loan and completely bin Main, Johnson and Sammon. Obviously this then means we need to bring in an entirely new set of strikers but it's probably required. 

Unless, of course, George Newell comes back from his loan and proves to be the saviour. 

[Desp]

Aye, think Saturday was the tipping point for me regarding Main. He's not good enough. 

I'd have no issue with giving Scott a bit of experience over the next 8 games to get him started, but I'd agree that 6 months or a season in the Championship is needed for him. 

At least 2 new strikers for next season, please. 

[Del_Superwell]

It was interesting reading a quote from Robinson in an article at the weekend which was shared by Graham Speirs on Twitter In which  Robbo is quoted as saying he has already got 2 players coming in to join us in the summer,  be interesting to know who they are,  one may of course be the boy Gallagher of Livingston who we were rumoured to have offered a pre contract for.

[crazylegsjoe]

I agree regarding the comments about Scott going on loan. I'd definitely give him as much game time as possible in the last eight games now in order for us to be able to assess exactly where he is in the summer. 

Main's season has been underwhelming at best, I'm sure we'll all agree. We were getting by with him doing the dirty work when we were on our winning run, but for me that was due to the fact that Hastie and Turnbull were scoring the majority of our goals.

Had we been playing Frear out wide, as we very probably could have had he not picked up a knock against Ross County, Main's deficiencies could've hurt us more, as Frear's solely seems to rely on crossing the ball to the strikers as his game. I'd describe him as a "winger" and Hastie as a "forward".

The striker position certainly does need a total refresh in the summer, but I guess on our budget and resources, most of the signings will be represent gambles of sorts.

Edited March 18, 2019 by crazylegsjoe

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

Main will be gone at the end of the season and I can't say I'm too fussed about it tbh. He's improved in recent times to a degree but 3 goals all season when he's been the first choice striker is really just nowhere near good enough. 

I would like to see more of Scott in the next 8 games. There's no real harm in it and it'll give him a bit of experience in leading the line. I do expect he'll be sent out on loan to a Championship team to get kicked about a bit and I'd love to see him come back ready to fight for a place in the team. 

If it were up to me I'd probably send Scott on loan and completely bin Main, Johnson and Sammon. Obviously this then means we need to bring in an entirely new set of strikers but it's probably required. 

Unless, of course, George Newell comes back from his loan and proves to be the saviour. 

Strongly agree with this. I can't imagine that being parked on the bench as he is at the moment is what Danny Johnson signed up for when he arrived but clearing the decks up front seems quite appealing especially as (for now) the rest of the XI seems pretty balanced.

One of the big things for me this season, as I've mentioned, has been Robinson learning from his mistakes.

Given the business model we have you'd expect one or two sellable assets to move on to keep us ticking over. Whether that's Cadden, Hastie or even a Heneghan type move for Johnson who knows but even if they did move then realistically assuming the Gallagher pre-contract rumour is true and we also manage to tie Ally Gorrin down we could be going in to next season with a fairly solid 8 of 11 plus a bit of cash from sales.

Gillespie
Grimshaw (Gallagher?) Dunne Tait
Campbell (Gorrin?) Turnbull
RW CF LW

It'd be interesting to see how Robinson would get on with a specific area to recruit but he's been hit or miss when it'd comes to forwards so far then again this will be his 4th window and he's picked up Ariyibi based on specific qualities:

• Hastie was already here
• Scott was already here
• Tanner took a while to find his feet but has been broken for over a year
• Main did a job but now looks like a guy who knows he's done
• Fisher lasted 6 months
• McCormack was a great signing on paper...
• Petravicius = competition winner
• Newell...well.
• Ciftci would have been ideal in this team
• Sammon's been Sammon
• Ariyibi's been great value
• Frear wasn't a Robinson signing

Both Watson and McLaughlin were Craigan signings.

It'll be interesting to see who he's got in mind and what sort of profile they fit. Ideally he'll have moved away from bringing in players to fit a specific shape. Also, the rumoured signing of Gallagher makes me wonder if we're focussing more on knowns.

Edit: Scott, Sammon, Frear, McHugh and Johnson all in the Reserves team this afternoon. Semple's the captain.

Edited March 18, 2019 by capt_oats

[Mr. Brightside]

Is Tanner ever coming back?

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Strongly agree with this. I can't imagine that being parked on the bench as he is at the moment is what Danny Johnson signed up for when he arrived but clearing the decks up front seems quite appealing especially as (for now) the rest of the XI seems pretty balanced.

One of the big things for me this season, as I've mentioned, has been Robinson learning from his mistakes.

Given the business model we have you'd expect one or two sellable assets to move on to keep us ticking over. Whether that's Cadden, Hastie or even a Heneghan type move for Johnson who knows but even if they did move then realistically assuming the Gallagher pre-contract rumour is true and we also manage to tie Ally Gorrin down we could be going in to next season with a fairly solid 8 of 11 plus a bit of cash from sales.

Gillespie
Grimshaw (Gallagher?) Dunne Tait
Campbell (Gorrin?) Turnbull
RW CF LW

It'd be interesting to see how Robinson would get on with a specific area to recruit but he's been hit or miss when it'd comes to forwards so far then again this will be his 4th window and he's picked up Ariyibi based on specific qualities:

• Hastie was already here
• Scott was already here
• Tanner took a while to find his feet but has been broken for over a year
• Main did a job but now looks like a guy who knows he's done
• Fisher lasted 6 months
• McCormack was a great signing on paper...
• Petravicius = competition winner
• Newell...well.
• Ciftci would have been ideal in this team
• Sammon's been Sammon
• Ariyibi's been great value
• Frear wasn't a Robinson signing

Both Watson and McLaughlin were Craigan signings.

It'll be interesting to see who he's got in mind and what sort of profile they fit. Ideally he'll have moved away from bringing in players to fit a specific shape. Also, the rumoured signing of Gallagher makes me wonder if we're focussing more on knowns.

Fisher just seemed unlucky. He missed that one on one against Rangers and that was the end of that. Is he not battering in goals for Yeovil now?

I could almost forgive the signing of the competition winner as well. Clearly Robinson knew we were lacking pace in wide areas and Petravicius was certainly quick. He was, however, absolutely terrible at fitba.

3 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said:

Is Tanner ever coming back?

As far as I understand it he's quietly been given a new deal that reflects his circumstances. It wouldn't exactly be fair if we cut him loose when he's got no hope of passing a medical. However even if he does come back for a run out at the end of this season that's 18 months he's been out. I'd love to see him back because he might actually fit in to this attacking system as I think our 3-5-2 battering ram last season wasn't exactly Tanner-friendly.

 

[capt_oats]

Semple for the first team...

Quote

James Scott turned provider for Johnson, who lifted an effort from the edge of the area over goalkeeper Devlin Mackay and into the net.

Within a minute, Semple saw his opportunity 25 yards from goal and saw a fierce long-range effort beat the goalkeeper and put the hosts ahead.

A number of young academy graduates lined up alongside more experienced heads, and Ross says their progression is clear to see.

“We have boys at 17 years old who are playing like they are 21,” he said.

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2019/03/18/reserves-come-back-to-beat-kilmarnock/

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by capt_oats

[Del_Superwell]

6 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Semple for the first team...

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2019/03/18/reserves-come-back-to-beat-kilmarnock/

 

He's another youngster out of Contract at the end of the season according to the official website, I'd sign him up just now to avoid another Hastie like scenario.

[capt_oats]

24 minutes ago, Del_Superwell said:

He's another youngster out of Contract at the end of the season according to the official website, I'd sign him up just now to avoid another Hastie like scenario.

Yeah he and Kyle MacDonald both signed pro in 2017 https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2017/06/21/youngsters-pen-professional-deals/

I can't see any mention of an extension so I'm guessing it was 2 year contracts they signed.

That said Semple's already had the Hastie hype when he was 14. https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14623203.the-14-year-old-motherwell-striker-lined-up-by-some-of-englands-best-clubs-heads-to-sunderland-on-trial/ 

Adam Livingstone, Liam Brown, Broque Watson, Shaun Bowers all have their contracts up as well. Of those, only Livingstone's an academy player.

The 2018 group are contracted until 2020 but interestingly (or not) we seem to have binned the u18s tag on the official and they're now just grouped as Reserves...

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Mind folk were raging we gave a Kipre a contract extension after a few weeks?

Should have let him run down his contract first imo.

[AndyRoss]

Notice McKinstry hasn't been in the reserve squad the last few games, but then there's Semple captaining the side.  Hopefully that's a positive sign that his future lies at Fir Park.

[capt_oats]

23 hours ago, Mr. Brightside said:

Is Tanner ever coming back?

He's been putting in extra graft with Hartley in the gym so he seems less broken than before.

I hope Ross MacLean's on a good commission.

 

Edited March 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[crazylegsjoe]

Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that Hartley is on the bench every single week, yet as far as we are led to believe, the last time he kicked a ball in a match situation was against Ross County in the cup? He seems to be the only fringe player who hasn't been involved in the reserves at all.  As well as the boxing picture above, he was also at the UWS altitude training thing with the other injured players too, something weird there. 

I wouldn't be heartbroken to see him go at the end of the season, as by all accounts, he's had a poor season.  I do wonder what kind of team would take him though. Normally, I would think a guy in his position would be a stick on for a league two side, but over the past three seasons he's played 18, 17 and 25 games all in and with these teams looking for a guy who could get through the majority of 46 league games, I can't see many rushing for him. I know that 18 figure could rise this season, but if the Celtic game (or even the reserve team selection) tells us anything then McHugh and Donnelly would both need to be out for him to get the nod again this time around. 

The more I think about it, the more I can see a major overhaul this summer. We have done well of late with a settled starting eleven. Only 6 of those are contracted for next season and of the five who aren't, I'd only really expect Gorrin to still be here. Main can go, it's unlikely we'll keep Ariyibi and Aldred beyond their loans and who knows what will happen with Hastie.

Beyond that, we have a bench full of expensive fringe players who didn't do well when in the first team this season. I'd obviously give Cadden a new deal, but beyond that I can only see arguments to really keep Frear and McHugh and even at that - on wages that reflect their current standing in the team.  You hear all sorts of rumours about Tanner, some will tell you he's close to a return, some will tell you he'll never play again but either way, I don't think we can or should expect a massive impact from him any time soon.

From the starting eleven, I can see us having to focus on wide men and forwards ahead of the new season. Some may say a left-back to get Tait back to the right hand side, but I'm sure we'd all agree that the gap between Tait and Grimshaw on the right is nothing close to the gap between Tait (despite being right footed) and Francis-Angol, Straker, Chalmers, Hendrie and Taylor-Sinclair who have all tried and failed to replace Hammell. It's a shame that it doesn't appear to be working out for Adam Livingstone.

Edit - maybe we're just playing Hartley in the wrong position, according to transfrmrkt, his record is better than a goal or assist every four games for us 

Edited March 19, 2019 by crazylegsjoe

[MJC]

Hartley has never been the same player since his injury last year and doesn't partner well with Aldred. I expect he'll be off in the summer along with Main, Hastie, Aldred, Sammon McCormack and Johnson, whom I all expect to move on. This summer will be a massive job to rebuild the squad after last summer's disaster and will be massive for Robinson to get it right because a repeat of summer 2018 for him will see him on borrowed time.

[Del_Superwell]

3 hours ago, MJC said:

Hartley has never been the same player since his injury last year and doesn't partner well with Aldred. I expect he'll be off in the summer along with Main, Hastie, Aldred, Sammon McCormack and Johnson, whom I all expect to move on. This summer will be a massive job to rebuild the squad after last summer's disaster and will be massive for Robinson to get it right because a repeat of summer 2018 for him will see him on borrowed time.

The work has already began, Robinson is quoted as saying in an article by Graham Speirs at the weekend that he has 2 new players signed for the summer on minimal money, again I think that's to downplay the kind of budget he has to other clubs,  it would certainly be interesting to know who the 2 players are, one possibly the boy Gallagher from Livingston, arguably may be Aldred's replacement if he isn't staying put.

[Casagolda]

I think having Kipre/Dunne either side of him probably played a huge part in Hartley’s success last season.

He was there to organise the pair of them while just generally heading and kicking anything that came in his direction. Without those two doing his running for him, combined with a series of niggling injuries he can’t seem to shake, we’ve began to see the weaknesses you’d naturally associate with a 30 something, injury prone, journeymen centre back- most notably his lack of pace and mobility. 

While the 433 has worked a treat these last few months, teams are already starting to switch onto it and Saturday was the 2nd away game in a row where our widemen have been nullified by the opposition and we’ve failed to score. With both wingers as well as Frear probably all away in the summer, you wonder if Robinson will stick with it. I’d imagine trying to bring in at least 2 new wingers, as well as the of couple of new strikers required, all of of sufficient quality would be difficult within his budget.

With the rumoured signing of Gallagher who plays in a back 3 for Livi, I did wonder if Robinson might be tempted to stray back towards playing 3 at the back next season(enter Hartley?). He’s clearly talked about needing the right players to play certain formations and if anything, it’ll be interesting to see who he recruits this summer. If he does want to stick with what we’re doing just now, he’s pretty much going to need to completely overhaul the top end of the pitch and throw most of his budget at it.

In the meantime, I’d say getting Ally Gorrin signed up is pretty imperative. That’ll give Robinson a quality midfield 3 to build round regardless of what way he eventually wants to go next season.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Casagolda

[thisGRAEME]

14 hours ago, crazylegsjoe said:

Edit - maybe we're just playing Hartley in the wrong position, according to transfrmrkt, his record is better than a goal or assist every four games for us 

Is it not right that he's more effective offensively than his video pal, Alexis Sanchez?

I did wonder if going to maximum power is essentially highlighting he's away? I love big Pete, he's a smashing guy and was loads of fun last season until his injury. This season he's just never looked fit, and I feel for him as he seems to have fully committed to being in Lanarkshire. Happy to have him if he can get fit.

[capt_oats]

I think the thing with Hartley is that his limitations aren't things that he's really going to sort out just by getting fit again.

Essentially he's not going to get any quicker, which is fine if we're just sticking him in the middle of a back 3 and asking him to organise but if we're playing with a back 4 then Charlie Dunne's got that position on lock, McHugh's been preferred to him at times this season and presumably Barry Maguire gets a look in there when he's back from his loan too.

There's been a lot of talk about Robinson's learning curve and one thing he mentioned after the Accies game before the break was needing players who were physically capable of a sustained run of games (or words to that effect). Clearly that was a comment on ATS but right now Hartley probably falls into that category too.

Kipré leaving and Dunne having been out for a chunk of the season probably reinforces the need for pace at the back too which again, is something that's also a problem for Hartley.

Presumably he's not really going to settle for being parked on the bench or retained solely on the off chance there may be games where we might want to go with a back 3 given what he was saying about wanting to play games when he signed on loan initially. In fairness, I don't see Robinson being particularly keen about carrying a player like that either given the fairly regular comments about our limited budget.

If we were able to find takers for Fisher and Bowman at League 2 level then we'd probably be able to sort something out with Hartley if there's a bit of flexibility on either side. We even managed to get Louis Laing out on loan to Notts County a couple of seasons ago FFS.

I suppose it really depends on how motivated he is to play (and I'd imagine he is).

Absolutely nothing against the big man he was smashing last season and while it may have brought a frown from the club the pre-match comments and subsequent last minute equaliser against Rangers was great value however given he's the captain and presumably on a decent wedge but not getting any sort of game time it's probably fair to ask where he fits.

Edited March 20, 2019 by capt_oats

[crazylegsjoe]

47 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Absolutely nothing against the big man he was smashing last season and while it may have brought a frown from the club the pre-match comments and subsequent last minute equaliser against Rangers was great value however given he's the captain and presumably on a decent wedge but not getting any sort of game time it's probably fair to ask where he fits.

Yeah, the reason I'd go against keeping many of our subs/fringe players is the money that they are likely to be on just now. It's a dear bench that has the last two club captains on it, as well as Frear and Connor Sammon (I know there's obviously 0% chance we'd keep him anyway).

I'd be all for making Richard Tait captain permanently in the summer, but that seems something of a poisoned chalice these days.