Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[boozyBJ]

Winning ugly is great. Losing (or drawing) ugly is not great

[Kapowzer]

7 minutes ago, boozyBJ said:

Winning ugly is great. Losing (or drawing) ugly is not great

See I'd disagree with you there. We've accepted we won't get our fix every week by supporting our team, otherwise we'd go to Ibrox and Parkhead. Football is a sport/entertainment product which makes its revenue due to people engaged. I have limited resources especially now with everything sky rocketing. The spare cash I have I use to make the most of my free time. While football has a bond that a golf course or other alternative may not have I still want to have some form of enjoyment otherwise it is a chore and then I question will I get better satisfaction spending my money elsewhere.

I get frustrated as we all do seeing week after week of hoofball, midfield head tennis and floaty chips into the box lapped up by the opposition defence. I get hopeful when we play football in the last ten minutes of a match that the epiphany has sunk in and we may see it from the start of the next game only to be repeatedly disheartened.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. That goes for the tactics, style, personnel and management as well as the audience.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I think is just a matter of opinion really, in football terms I derive satisfaction from seeing Motherwell win and everything else is secondary by a long shot. If Alexander can get us back to playing shite and winning more than we lose then he can stay as long as he likes, I just don't have much confidence in him to do that.

[D-Fens Foster]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I think is just a matter of opinion really, in football terms I derive satisfaction from seeing Motherwell win and everything else is secondary by a long shot. If Alexander can get us back to playing shite and winning more than we lose then he can stay as long as he likes, I just don't have much confidence in him to do that.

I’ve been following the well for over 20 years I don’t expect amazing football but this is starting tae get up there with the Malpas days of hoofball shite with no results. It’s soul destroying 

[ropy]

I think we have too many players.  Get 17 or 18 and have a few younger ones who can get 10 minutes if the situation warrants it, 3-0 up or 3-0 down.

The manager doesn’t know which 11 to pick, the fans can point at any number from a 25 man squad that they think can do a better job.  Get a smaller focused squad with a more settled team.  Cuts down the options, fewer balls in the tombolla.

I am not going to spend energy on an Alexander out call as I don’t expect it to happen.  I reserve the right to change my mind if we get to within 3 points of the play off place.  Of course, by then it will be too late.

[Busta Nut]

Alexander can go. He's a stubborn helmet.

[CoF]

15 hours ago, rowsdower said:

Could give some lessons on scoring from corners though.

Was thinking about that at the Hibs game. Anyone got a stat on how many we score from corners these days? I know scoring from anywhere is a problem just now, but it feels like we've got absolutely zero threat at set prices.  

[thisGRAEME]

15 hours ago, Lukovic said:

No matter what the questions are with this team I can assure people that Liam Grimshaw is not the answer

The catalyst. Get him back in and just run-about the ball into the net.

[capt_oats]

16 hours ago, JamesP_81 said:

IMO we definitely have a group of players who are more than capable of getting us a comfortable top 6 finish with a touch of entertaining football to watch along the way . Alexander just seems to be doing everything possible to give them an uphill struggle every game. Play to no-one's strengths , constantly mix the team up , don't even try to change things untill it's far too late . Given the extra subs that are allowed now it's unforgivable to wait untill the 80th minute then making 1 sub.  

Taking a quick look at the subs he's used recently and when they've been made:

(1) - 19/03 - St Johnstone (a) - Woolery for Carroll (77')
(2) - 05/03 - Dundee (h) - Tierney for Goss (76') | Slattery for O'Hara (77')
(3) - 02/03 - County (h) - Efford for Shields (57') | Roberts for Goss (73') | Slattery for Johansen (79')
(5) - 27/02 - Rangers (a) - Roberts, Amaluzor, Shaw for Tierney, O'Hara, Efford (46') | Johansen for Amaluzor (83') | Ojala for Woolery (90+2')
(2) - 19/02 - Aberdeen (h) - Woolery for Efford, Lamie for Johansen (63')
(4) - 09/02 - Dundee United (a) - Tierney, Van Veen, Cornelius for Woolery, Roberts, Slattery (63') | Shields for Donnelly (76')
(5) - 06/02 - Celtic (h) - Woolery, Efford, Tierney for Van Veen, Carroll, Goss (46') | Nirennold for Slattery (81') | Grimshaw for Johansen (82')
(3) - 01/02 - St Mirren (a) - Tierney for Shaw (40') | Woolery for Slattery (74') | Roberts for McGinley (83')
(3) 29/01 - Hearts (a) - Goss for Maguire (33') | Shields for Roberts (71') | Amaluzor for Goss (81')
(3) 26/01 - Hibs (h) - Tierney for Shields (66') | Shaw for Roberts (84') | Slattery for Tierney (85')
(2) 18/01 - Ross County (a) - Shields for Maguire (78') | Amaluzor for Woolery (87')

Averages out at 3 subs a game.

On the two occasions he's used all 5 they've both been in games where it's looked like the game's gone - Celtic 3-0 down at H/T and Rangers 2-0 down at H/T.

Edited March 21, 2022 by capt_oats

[Phillips455]

23 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Taking a quick look at the subs he's used recently and when they've been made:

(1) - 19/03 - St Johnstone (a) - Woolery for Carroll (77')
(2) - 05/03 - Dundee (h) - Tierney for Goss (76') | Slattery for O'Hara (77')
(3) - 02/03 - County (h) - Efford for Shields (57') | Roberts for Goss (73') | Slattery for Johansen (79')
(5) - 27/02 - Rangers (a) - Roberts, Amaluzor, Shaw for Tierney, O'Hara, Efford (46') | Johansen for Amaluzor (83') | Ojala for Woolery (90+2')
(2) - 19/02 - Aberdeen (h) - Woolery for Efford, Lamie for Johansen (63')
(4) - 09/02 - Dundee United (a) - Tierney, Van Veen, Cornelius for Woolery, Roberts, Slattery (63') | Shields for Donnelly (76')
(5) - 06/02 - Celtic (h) - Woolery, Efford, Tierney for Van Veen, Carroll, Goss (46') | Nirennold for Slattery (81') | Grimshaw for Johansen (82')
(3) - 01/02 - St Mirren (a) - Tierney for Shaw (40') | Woolery for Slattery (74') | Roberts for McGinley (83')
(3) 29/01 - Hearts (a) - Goss for Maguire (33') | Shields for Roberts (71') | Amaluzor for Goss (81')
(3) 26/01 - Hibs (h) - Tierney for Shields (66') | Shaw for Roberts (84') | Slattery for Tierney (85')
(2) 18/01 - Ross County (a) - Shields for Maguire (78') | Amaluzor for Woolery (87')

Averages out at 3 subs a game.

On the two occasions he's used all 5 they've both been in games where it's looked like the game's gone - Celtic 3-0 down at H/T and Rangers 2-0 down at H/T.

Looking at the timings, he certainly favours the 70th plus minute to make a sub. A few on the 60th minute side and the earlier subs are either a "f**k it we are already lossing badly" or are due to injuries (pretty sure the Maguire and Shaw subs were both injury related).

 

As most fans expected at the St Johnstone game, not enough subs were used and they weren't used early enough. If woolery was subbed on I  the 60th minute and some other small changes then we could have become more effective on the attack. As it is only give woolery 10 minute to do anything really kills our chances of winning/taking points.

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

Looking at the timings, he certainly favours the 70th plus minute to make a sub. A few on the 60th minute side and the earlier subs are either a "f**k it we are already lossing badly" or are due to injuries (pretty sure the Maguire and Shaw subs were both injury related).

As most fans expected at the St Johnstone game, not enough subs were used and they weren't used early enough. If woolery was subbed on I  the 60th minute and some other small changes then we could have become more effective on the attack. As it is only give woolery 10 minute to do anything really kills our chances of winning/taking points.

Aye, Maguire's was the (knee) that's put him out for the season and Shaw was a suspected concussion.

Edited March 21, 2022 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, CoF said:

Was thinking about that at the Hibs game. Anyone got a stat on how many we score from corners these days? I know scoring from anywhere is a problem just now, but it feels like we've got absolutely zero threat at set prices.  

Not specific to corners but...

Also, for context; we've scored more than Hibs and United and one fewer than Livi.

Edited March 21, 2022 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

The catalyst. Get him back in and just run-about the ball into the net.

As long as it's in a straight line in front of him he'll be there.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Saturday saw Alexander reach an almost twenty year record in the period of time that a single Motherwell manager has gone without a league win. The last time we went this long without one was between September and December 2002. At that point, we were deep into administration and Butcher was forced to play youth players and the likes of Daniel Sengewald. Granted, Grezza's winless spell has had five draws to Butcher's one, but I can't see us ending our winless spell like with a 6-1 win like we did back then. The next record in his sights is Alex McLeish's 15 games from 1995/96.

Personally, I think Grezza has dug himself a hole that he didn't need to dig that's made his position pretty untenable. Before the break, we just about had a formula that was working. The defence was changing more than we'd like, but in midfield there was that run of six games where the midfield was the same and even after that, the midfield was consistently made up of Slattery, Goss and one other, with the front three set in stone. Why did he feel the need to rip all of this up, when we were 4th in the table? Why not give Roberts a run of six games in Watt's place and let him bed in? 

Before the break, if any members of our starting eleven weren't the standard of footballer we'd like them to be, at least they were focused, match-fit, well drilled and used to playing with each other. 

We're now in a catch twenty-two situation. The more the team gets changed, the more it needs to get changed.

With the talk about winning ugly and losing ugly, what I would say is that whilst losing ugly is never nice, you can be consoled a lot better when you know your team are capable of producing better, but when winning ugly is as good as it gets, it will lead to easier disgruntlement. I watch Motherwell games to see us win, but if I had to ask myself which games this season I've genuinely been entertained by our style of play, other than the 2-0 win over Hearts in November, I would struggle to pick one. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by crazylegsjoe_mfc

[Kapowzer]

22 hours ago, EK2DK said:

With the greatest respect to other clubs, Motherwell are probably the 8th biggest club in the country but we don’t act like it.

Just out of interest, who do you reckon is 7th?

OF, Dons, Edinburgh x2, Arabs ...... then?

[ZX1886]

We are the 7th biggest club in the county. 6th if I’m being biased. It’s between us, Dundee United and Kilmarnock for 6th. Dunfermline may have been in there as well many years ago.

[Desp]

46 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I watch Motherwell games to see us win, but if I had to ask myself which games this season I've genuinely been entertained by our style of play, other than the 2-0 win over Hearts in November, I would struggle to pick one. 

This is probably the only game I've enjoyed this season as well.  Maybe the 2-0 win against Aberdeen early doors, but even then, we just stopped them playing and nicked a couple of goals with, I think, our only shots on target.

I actually quite enjoyed the 2-3 against Hibs on the opening day as well, but that's just maybe because it was first game in about 17 months and the sun was shining.

As for the "biggest club" chat, I don't really care.  If you were to look at it from afar, are we any bigger than the likes of Kilmarnock, Dundee, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Partick Thistle etc?  Arguably not.  What does a "bigger club" even mean, anyway?  What can't be disputed, however, is we're undoubtedly a better club than those mentioned.  Slightly harsh on Killie, as along with us, they were the standard for the provincial clubs over the last 30 years, but last year's relegation done them.  

[DylanMFC]

14 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Just out of interest, who do you reckon is 7th?

OF, Dons, Edinburgh x2, Arabs ...... then?

 

14 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

Just out of interest, who do you reckon is 7th?

OF, Dons, Edinburgh x2, Arabs ...... then?

Dundee at their absolute peak probably get more gates than us. They just don’t seem to be at that peak very often.

[Kapowzer]

52 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Saturday saw Alexander reach an almost twenty year record in the period of time that a single Motherwell manager has gone without a league win. The last time we went this long without one was between September and December 2002. At that point, given we were deep into administration and Butcher was forced to play youth players and the likes of Daniel Sengewald. Granted, Grezza's winless spell has had five draws to Butcher's one, but I can't see us ending our winless spell like with a 6-1 win like we did back then. The next record in his sights is Alex McLeish's 15 games from 1995/96.

Personally, I think Grezza has dug himself a hole that he didn't need to dig that's made his position pretty untenable. Before the break, we just about had a formula that was working. The defence was changing more than we'd like, but in midfield there was that run of six games where the midfield was the same and even after that, the midfield was consistently made up of Slattery, Goss and one other, with the front three set in stone. Why did he feel the need to rip all of this up, when we were 4th in the table? Why not give Roberts a run of six games in Watt's place and let him bed in? 

Before the break, if any members of our starting eleven weren't the standard of footballer we'd like them to be, at least they were focused, match-fit, well drilled and used to playing with each other. 

We're now in a catch twenty-two situation. The more the team gets changed, the more it needs to get changed.

With the talk about winning ugly and losing ugly, what I would say is that whilst losing ugly is never nice, you can be consoled a lot better when you know your team are capable of producing better, but when winning ugly is as good as it gets, it will lead to easier disgruntlement. I watch Motherwell games to see us win, but if I had to ask myself which games this season I've genuinely been entertained by our style of play, other than the 2-0 win over Hearts in November, I would struggle to pick one. 

The digging himself a hole thing rings true.

He's has access to more funds than any other manager other than John Spencer/Andy Goram years of heady ITV Digital and Setana promised monies.

We're not going to see any form of enjoyable football when you have someone who is to his very core is all about damage limitation than infliction.

He's stubborn and holds grudges, getting carded for arguing over shy's and alike, passion is good but have it directed and productive rather than petulant.

To spell out the last few months, 1-1 with Ross County and 11 v 10 to let them score twice, scraped by in ET against a team at the foot of the Championship, last minute equaliser against St. Mirren, held by Dundee team decimated by Covid, 1-0 up to 2-1 loss on Saturday.

Forget going on about our run of fixtures running up to the split as being easier, anyone who see us coming up is rubbing their hands with glee.

What we need to appreciate is the past few months would be the entire story of 2021-22 season if Tony went in the summer.

[ZX1886]

As for the "biggest club" chat, I don't really care.  If you were to look at it from afar, are we any bigger than the likes of Kilmarnock, Dundee, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Partick Thistle etc?  Arguably not.  What does a "bigger club" even mean, anyway?  What can't be disputed, however, is we're undoubtedly a better club than those mentioned.  Slightly harsh on Killie, as along with us, they were the standard for the provincial clubs over the last 30 years, but last year's relegation done them. 

In Scottish football it counts for nothing below the OF really. It’s mostly do to with expectations but again, outside the OF, we all pretty much expect / want the same. Perform well in the league and have a decent attempt at winning the cups. Of course clubs like Aberdeen / Hearts expect to be 3rd in the league, 4th is a failure for them and a success for us. Similarly 10th is a failure to us and would’ve been a success to Accies last season or Dundee this season.I guess all this means is that the bigger you are outside the OF, the more miserable you are due to not really being better than those around you.