Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[2426255]

3 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I mean that’s really just inviting speculation since none of us actually know why he’s making these decisions - we’re just stood on the sidelines looking perplexed.

Despite Kettlewell’s fondness for talking and the 20 odd minute press conferences I don’t think any of the journos covering Motherwell have ever explicitly asked him “Stuart, why the f**k are you still playing a young right back out of position at left wing back rather than the actual left wing back you’re invariably having to chuck on with 20 mins to go when you’re losing who seems to create chances and goals?”.

Tbh, I’d imagine the honest answer would be some wooly idea that the players he’s not giving starts to - including our diminutive North Macedonian international - need to show more in training or whatever.

And that’s fine…maybe they do but if you’re a Motherwell manager then the entire job is getting the best out of the players you have available so you don’t really get to have it both ways - you don’t get to blame “budget” while you’re pointedly refusing to use players you signed in preference of sticking with players who are either underperforming or being used in such a way that it’s limiting them.

Ultimately I’d say the bulk of the Motherwell posters on here are fairly rational save the one or two handwringing types who have us getting relegated if we lose a game (any game). They’re also broadly in a demographic who for the most part have never known the club as anything other than a top flight team (I’m one of those) - 39 consecutive seasons. We’re not a club who have habitually gone on 12 game winless runs (until recently) - so there’s that expectation but there’s also the experience - we’ve been through a fair number of managers in that time and as a result there’s generally a steer as to when a manager has lost it and what the signs are.

As others have suggested the performance on Tuesday in Dingwall said a lot.

It’s telling that most have just skipped past the bargaining, denial and anger stages and went straight to acceptance with Kettlwell.

That reply is pretty much spot on mate. I get you aren't going to know the specific reasons. That's unfortunate as if you spent a week or two with the Kettlewell you'd maybe understand better what he is trying to do, where he is coming from and his logic. Unfortunately as it is, fans mostly just have to play a bit of a guessing game and that's probably why in the end it always comes down to results.

I dunno - I still personally think injuries, budget and squad size might just be the basic reasons that have lead to this swing in results. I'd say the Celtic result in particular show the players that played at least were at that point still playing for him and the club and possibly also the Dundee one - I could be wrong on that as I haven't been at the games. 

My bird always says the only thing men get emotional about is the football. She's pretty much right.  In any case the forces around football will dictate how this plays out regardless of individual opinion.

Edited December 8, 2023 by 2426255

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, 'WellDel said:

 

Can two guys who haven't started games all season be expected to come straight in, be perfect performers and not be blowing out their holes by the 70th minute? Of course not, but it won't stop a certain element of the support expecting it.

I've already stated that I think it's already gone for Kettlewell, but I'd be fully behind these guys getting their chance(looks like there's going to be little option anyway) and having as close to a full team playing in their strongest positions as possible, but I won't expect miracles in their first full 90's.

All rationale has long since gone out the window for many though, and I wouldn't put it past them getting pelters and things turning toxic pretty quickly if things go half as badly as they did on Tuesday night.

Definitely nothing against the pair of them, it's just going to be funny after everyone (myself included) has been demanding Gent for weeks.

I think a little more can be expected of him given his game time. Davor, given he wasn't even given a jog for ages until Tuesday, certainly gets a little more leeway for me.

[MurrayWell]

Who knows what creative line-up we're in store for tomorrow, FWIW I really hoped Kettlewell would turn it around, he seems like a really decent guy, but it's looking increasingly unlikely. 

To be honest, most of my frustration at Tuesday's result (and this extended run) is aimed at the chairman and club board. Almost feels like they are happy to just continue with this lack of direction because "awk we're Motherwell what do folk expect?", that's just not acceptable. Not an expert on the inner workings, but from the outside looking in it seems like too many take their position for granted and are far too comfortable. 

Think as fans we accept we'll have good runs and bad runs, but I think it's entirely fair to have expectations that those running your club won't take nearly a year to replace a CEO and will run the place like a professional football team, in line with a shared mission and vision. There seems to be a reluctance from the longer serving members of the board to listen to newer and bolder ideas. 

['WellDel]

9 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Definitely nothing against the pair of them, it's just going to be funny after everyone (myself included) has been demanding Gent for weeks.

I think a little more can be expected of him given his game time. Davor, given he wasn't even given a jog for ages until Tuesday, certainly gets a little more leeway for me.

Definitely mate. Of what we've seen so far, Gent looks handy enough going forward but a bit suspect in his defending. More than prepared to cut him some slack on that front as he's young, raw, and essentially here to develop and learn his trade. Whoever's on the left of the back 3 will have to be willing to put  in a shift out there covering him when needed. Hopefully a couple of starts could see him having the same impact Furlong had after his ropey first few outings last season.

As for Davor? Who knows. It looks as though we won't have long to wait to see if he has a bit about him, or if Kettlewell has been right in keeping him sidelined. However it pans out he deserves time to adjust to being a starter in what will no doubt be a very tense 90 mins.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

Gent has obviously shown us in glimpses that he is decent going forward. I've no idea how Kettlewell doesn't think he can play like that from the start. It's bizarre to have a full-back who has eight sub appearances before the halfway point in the season.

Davor, to be honest, none of us truly knows. I think I've been guilty at times of thinking he's not playing due to youth and inexperience, before realising he's 25 and has played in the top league in Cyprus for AEL Limassol for five years before joining us. He was playing every week and according to Transfermarkt, captained them on several occasions.

Like I said with Casey, I wonder if it would be any different if we got Davor in for pre-season and league cup games. 

[Swello]

I watched Davor closely when he came on the other night - as I probably said at the time, he looked like a perfectly functional midfielder given that he's been nowhere near the team. He felt like a decent profile for us when he signed and I'd love to know what it is about him that Kettlewell doesn't fancy to the extent that he'll play anyone he can find in there ahead of him.

[Handsome_Devil]

9 minutes ago, Swello said:

I watched Davor closely when he came on the other night - as I probably said at the time, he looked like a perfectly functional midfielder given that he's been nowhere near the team. He felt like a decent profile for us when he signed and I'd love to know what it is about him that Kettlewell doesn't fancy to the extent that he'll play anyone he can find in there ahead of him.

When you see him ignored to such an extent it makes me suspect there's more to it than just being shite in training - or rather, there being a non-sporting reason he's perhaps shite in training. It's one thing a move not working out, it not working out to the extent it has with him when he has his pedigree raises an eyebrow.

[capt_oats]

44 minutes ago, Swello said:

I watched Davor closely when he came on the other night - as I probably said at the time, he looked like a perfectly functional midfielder given that he's been nowhere near the team. He felt like a decent profile for us when he signed and I'd love to know what it is about him that Kettlewell doesn't fancy to the extent that he'll play anyone he can find in there ahead of him.

32 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

When you see him ignored to such an extent it makes me suspect there's more to it than just being shite in training - or rather, there being a non-sporting reason he's perhaps shite in training. It's one thing a move not working out, it not working out to the extent it has with him when he has his pedigree raises an eyebrow.

Obviously I don't know but after the St Mirren game and his subsequent exile I wondered if it might have simply been down to his size.

Which seems daft given that surely we knew that about him before he signed but equally it feels like something that I can imagine being a stumbling block for Kettlewell in terms of how competitive he might be in this league.

Edited December 8, 2023 by capt_oats

[Ron Aldo]

Whenever we sign players (specifically midfielders) who look to have a bit of pedigree, it always turns out to be a bit of a disaster. They're either never heard of again or just turn out to be varying degrees of dug meat. 

Davor seems to be the latest to add to a list that includes Casper Sloth, Christian Ilic, Gael Bigirimana, Jake Taylor and Morgaro Gomis. Even Ali Gorrin took the best part of 6 months before he was ever seen. 

[ropy]

44 minutes ago, Swello said:

I watched Davor closely when he came on the other night - as I probably said at the time, he looked like a perfectly functional midfielder given that he's been nowhere near the team. He felt like a decent profile for us when he signed and I'd love to know what it is about him that Kettlewell doesn't fancy to the extent that he'll play anyone he can find in there ahead of him.

He looked absolutely fine when he came on, my only concern is that he is a bit lightweight and may get bullied off the ball.

But the players were happy to give him the ball which means he had their trust, his time has come.

Surely.

Edited December 8, 2023 by ropy

[RandomGuy.]

15 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Obviously I don't know but after the St Mirren game and his subsequent exile I wondered if it might have simply been down to his size.

Which seems daft given that surely we knew that about him before he signed.

Youd genuinely be surprised how wrong WyScout can get peoples height (hes listed as 5"8 on there, same as Callum Slattery if they compared v your squad), and how hard in general it is to get an accurate height/weight for footballers.

Theres genuinely every chance they thought he was a few inches taller depending on where they looked (if they looked).

[dezz]

According to Transfermarkt, Davor is just under 5''9 making him the same height as Callum Slattery and Harry Paton. He is maybe a bit more slight looking than either of those two but it's not like Slattery or Paton are particularly robust midfielders, and SK is happy to play both of them. Leads me to think it must be more than a physicality thing as to why we've not seen him, meaning he's either shite or something else is going on behind the scenes. 

[Handsome_Devil]

14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Youd genuinely be surprised how wrong WyScout can get peoples height (hes listed as 5"8 on there, same as Callum Slattery if they compared v your squad), and how hard in general it is to get an accurate height/weight for footballers.

Theres genuinely every chance they thought he was a few inches taller depending on where they looked (if they looked).

That's fantastic if the case.

Equally amusing is the thought we're shunning a player taking up a crucial part of our precious budget because he exaggerated his size by a couple of inches. Who'd ever do that...

Edited December 8, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

[capt_oats]

I suppose the thing with both Zdravkovski and (to a lesser extent) Gent is that we've seen Kettlewell completely freeze McKinstry out when we had a fair idea that he was capable of doing a job for us.

Like, I get that the switch to 3412 worked for us and it meant that we weren't playing with wingers but to go from 1,287 mins, 23 appearances and 4 goals and 2 assists in a misfiring team under Hammell to literally 5 mins across 2 sub appearances under Kettlewell (regardless of the fact that we were winning games) means it doesn't seem too far fetched that SK could just freeze someone out for *reasons*...

To that end I don't think it's necessarily a given that Davor is "shite". I mean, he might be...but he might not.

[Alanos]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

 

To that end I don't think it's necessarily a given that Davor is "shite". I mean, he might be...but he might not.

He might just be a wee shite instead.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Alanos

[capt_oats]

Sidebar: I just clocked that McKinstry played more minutes for Bielsa than Ketts

[Allroy for Prez]

If Casey and Butcher are going to be out…….. do we bring Lamie back from Dundee?

[well fan for life]

Just now, Allroy for Prez said:

If Casey and Butcher are going to be out…….. do we bring Lamie back from Dundee?

[YassinMoutaouakil]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Youd genuinely be surprised how wrong WyScout can get peoples height (hes listed as 5"8 on there, same as Callum Slattery if they compared v your squad), and how hard in general it is to get an accurate height/weight for footballers.

Theres genuinely every chance they thought he was a few inches taller depending on where they looked (if they looked).

Not sure about Wyscout but Wiki has Ross Tierney as 5'9 which I reckon is at least 4 inches out.

We should bring back Ross Tierney.

[ropy]

As an end of season extravaganza we should have a game where all the players we loaned out or didn’t get off the bench play against the ‘first’ team.

Just to see.