Handsome_Devil Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, santheman said: Some folk online are suggesting it costs us 150k a year in Govt loan repayments. I am shocked, shocked! to discover some people on the internet are wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezz Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, santheman said: Some folk online are suggesting it costs us 150k a year in Govt loan repayments. Dont know the exact figure but it will be nowhere near that. What I do know is that maintenance costs on the pitch are now roughly a fifth of what they used to be so the savings on that alone will more than cover any loan repayment costs. Think a lot of people are jumping on a bandwagon that's not really going anywhere. I think that figure is correct. £3m unsecured, interest free loan paid back over 20 years (2022-2042) equals £150k per annum. Assuming it's paid back in equal instalments, of course. As others have said, it would have been absolutely impossible for us to borrow money on any more favourable terms than that and it'd have been pretty irresponsible of the board if we hadn't taken advantage. Edit: Here's a quote from McMahon from Feb 2022: “We also borrowed £2,959,000 from the Scottish Government to further strengthen our position should the pandemic, and the associated restriction to our normal trading conditions, continue for an extended period. The borrowings are to be repaid between September 2022 and August 2042 and are unsecured and interest-free.” Edited December 20, 2023 by dezz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 45 minutes ago, Desp said: You seem to know everyone that's involved with Motherwell in some way a wee bit. #ITKBusta We're a small fan base. Just meant Gav's a well fan and I don't think he'd mean to be so down on the club. I know you tae #ITK 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 47 minutes ago, santheman said: Some folk online are suggesting it costs us 150k a year in Govt loan repayments. Dont know the exact figure but it will be nowhere near that. What I do know is that maintenance costs on the pitch are now roughly a fifth of what they used to be so the savings on that alone will more than cover any loan repayment costs. Think a lot of people are jumping on a bandwagon that's not really going anywhere. It's a loan - but it is straight interest free repayments. As a club - our biggest problem behind the scenes is getting access to capital - to fund stuff like pitch work and ground refurbishment and so this was a god send for that. There is virtually no cost to service the debt unlike any other loan we get. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 I hope some of our money is in an interest bearing account, £4M at 5% is £200k which would pay off 2 or 3 managers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 I didn’t realise there was midweek football, a Livingston win would be worrying although we would move up the league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Good that they've finally released a video to show what our direct debits are going towards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowsdower Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, ropy said: I hope some of our money is in an interest bearing account, £4M at 5% is £200k which would pay off 2 or 3 managers. I propose that going forward we only disclose transfer fees as how many managers we can fire with it. Maybe throw in infrastructure projects too. "Lennon Miller is joining Harcheter Utd for 6 sackings and a grass sewing machine." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 2 hours ago, santheman said: Some folk online are suggesting it costs us 150k a year in Govt loan repayments. Dont know the exact figure but it will be nowhere near that. I suggested that figure a couple of pages back. Dezz has eloquently explained why I came to that very figure and the rationale behind it . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 2 hours ago, santheman said: Think a lot of people are jumping on a bandwagon that's not really going anywhere. Me every single season tbf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Livi wining at Aberdeen! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: Livi wining at Aberdeen! Out the bottom two! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superwell87 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: Livi wining at Aberdeen! We've moved up a spot though..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 2 hours ago, ropy said: I didn’t realise there was midweek football, a Livingston win would be worrying although we would move up the league. It’s happening 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz1886 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Swello said: The Govt. Loan thing being presented as a problem is one of the things that I have most difficulty with. The terms of that loan are (from a commercial point of view) literally unbeatable - it would be impossible for us to get finance at that cost (doubly so due to our past admin). If the club didn't take that loan on, much bigger questions would have been asked as the Directors would have failed. The way the loan is presented in the accounts is (for a non-accountant like me) very weird - but that doesn't change the facts. Companies were more or less told to recognise the income from the loan/grant as other income in the P&L, with the debt recognised on the Balance Sheet. The accounts for MFC aren't all that bad, relatively speaking. The Well Society in the other hand ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, welldaft said: I suggested that figure a couple of pages back. Dezz has eloquently explained why I came to that very figure and the rationale behind it . I stand corrected.Wasnt having a pop at you btw. For some reason I thought that we had only borrowed 2mill and the savings on pitch maintenance more or less serviced the loan. More I think about it I'm sure I read it on SO sometime back , Should have double checked considering the scource right enough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstarcvedza Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 6 hours ago, capt_oats said: Noticed Scott Burns QT'ing this and well...where to fucking start: As previously mentioned the club had £4.2m in the bank per the last accounts vs £1.2m prior to the Turnbull sale so it suggests that the "transformative" money, in fact, hadn't actually been touched. Similarly the Scottish Government grant was to assist clubs with costs related to lost revenue during the Pandemic. Are we really taking shots at the club for like, using the loan money for the purpose it was intended? It's also pretty fucking clear what we spent a chunk of that £2.9m (almost exactly the amount we received for Turnbull) on ie: the stadium refurbs and new pitch which has resulted in the long term benefit that we're now no longer chucking six figures at the upkeep of the park instead IIRC the maintenance costs are the low 5 figures.. Also, in comparing our staff costs with Killie doesn't necessarily mean we're comparing the same departments but it also feels a bit weird given Killie were relegated and played a season in the Championship during that time - not exactly a like for like comp. On top of that if we're talking about our time as a fan owned club then we have a net profit of £4m+ in that time so.... As @Busta Nut mentioned yesterday McMahon saying we require "significant investment" is the most stating-the-fucking-obvious thing going especially in a league with the various city clubs receiving investment and 3rd place getting group stage football. Have we squandered money? Absolutely. Show me a club in Scottish fitba' who fucking hasn't. However, implying that the club have burned through £6m+ or whatever when they like...haven't is either disingenuous, misleading or simply bad faith tbh. How has debt owed moved.in the same period ? Increase.in bank balance with a commensurate increase in debt is net zero 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 53 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said: Livi wining at Aberdeen! Not any more 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstarcvedza Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 37 minutes ago, Muzz1886 said: Companies were more or less told to recognise the income from the loan/grant as other income in the P&L, with the debt recognised on the Balance Sheet. The accounts for MFC aren't all that bad, relatively speaking. The Well Society in the other hand ... Something strange here...if its a loan your bank balance increases but you have matching debt to pay back. If its a grant or a gift with no strings your bank balance increases and you recognise the income as there is no debt to pay back 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, redstarcvedza said: Something strange here...if its a loan your bank balance increases but you have matching debt to pay back. If its a grant or a gift with no strings your bank balance increases and you recognise the income as there is no debt to pay back It was acknowledged at the time as an unavoidable accounting quirk. Either Burrows on twitter or through the website explained it. Edit: actually here it is... Accounting standards require such debt transactions to reflect normal commercial arrangements, i.e., the interest rate an arms-length lender could be expected to charge on an unsecured 20-year loan. Therefore, the financial results recognise the “benefit” of having such a loan interest-free. The total of that computed over the loan’s full term is shown as a credit to Other Operating Income in year one of the borrowing. This has been calculated at £1.518m. This amount will subsequently be charged as a finance cost in the club’s future financial results spread over the total period of the borrowing. Edited December 20, 2023 by Handsome_Devil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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