eliphas Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Anyway. 9th place with, St Johnstone 2 behind, game in hand v Dundee. Not a guaranteed win. Ross County 2 behind, 2 games in hand v Hibs and Rangers. Both more likely to lose than win. Livi 8 behind. ....that's a better spot than I thought we'd be in just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casagolda Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 (edited) I do have some sympathy for Wilkinson. He was clearly signed to play in a pair when we were doing 352 at the start of the season and he has still managed 3 goals with just 7 league starts. However when he got injured Kettlewell’s since veered away into 523 and 541 etc, neither of which has a role for him in the team. Decent technically and seems a good finisher but not physical enough to lead the line on his own or mobile enough to play wider. He’s also not a central midfielder either as we know. So fair play to Kettlewell if he’s going to cut his losses rather than try to force it to work- very Robinson like. Biereth is clearly the main man, I’m not sure if wide of a 3 is his best position but another couple of assists today has him on 6 goals and 5 assists in just 12 starts. Meanwhile Bair, who probably started the season as 4th choice, now has 5 goals and 2 assists in 14 his starts. Forcing his way above Wilkinson and Obika in the pecking order. The latter if he can stay fit, can hang about as an experienced option off the bench. Where all this leaves Shaw who knows, hopefully back in Barnsley. Edited January 2 by Casagolda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4/6 points is what all of us would have said would have been a good/acceptable return for Livi(h) and Hibs(a) - so despite walking out the ground a bit gutted earlier - I think it's been a good week overall as Livi have a huge job to overturn our lead. The line-up was weird in the end today but from the available players, the 4-4-2 seemed logical enough - we then got ripped to shreds down our right and that was it. Formation aside, we were terrible in the first half and the opener was like the opener against Rangers - too easy to get at and score against and we can't keep doing it. Bair turning into a servicable forward was a twist I didn't see coming but long may it last - him and Mika are clearly a pain to play against. Other than that, not many great performances - Gent was the pick of the bunch for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 I'm not going to spend a long time panning Bevis for his shortcomings. Realistically we all know he's, at best, a stopgap defender. He's seen off 3 managers (maybe 4 soon) and the endless turnover is probably what's kept him getting contracts with us. The fact that we were starting this season with 2/3 of the nightmare fuel that was Bevis, Mugabi & Sol is further testament to recruitment that has been complete dogshit. As for today. Setting up with our best midfielder at RWB, who spent the first 15 minutes getting the pish ripped out him. Our only saviour is that Hibs then moved Tavares infield where it was more congested, as I said in the match thread they are fucking idiots for doing that. Slattery was anonymous, Paton is never a 6 in his life and is maybe the least composed player on the ball I can remember. There's probably a 4-4-2 in that team but we're back to sticking square pegs in round holes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, well fan for life said: I'm not going to spend a long time panning Bevis for his shortcomings. Realistically we all know he's, at best, a stopgap defender. He's seen off 3 managers (maybe 4 soon) and the endless turnover is probably what's kept him getting contracts with us. The fact that we were starting this season with 2/3 of the nightmare fuel that was Bevis, Mugabi & Sol is further testament to recruitment that has been complete dogshit. As for today. Setting up with our best midfielder at RWB, who spent the first 15 minutes getting the pish ripped out him. Our only saviour is that Hibs then moved Tavares infield where it was more congested, as I said in the match thread they are fucking idiots for doing that. Slattery was anonymous, Paton is never a 6 in his life and is maybe the least composed player on the ball I can remember. There's probably a 4-4-2 in that team but we're back to sticking square pegs in round holes. Tbf it's a big ask for Bevis to be playing two positions at the same time. On the square pegs in round holes thing and recruitment in general, I'm genuinely curious to see how/if Kettlewell addresses this. It feels harsh to be criticising Slattery when he's being asked to play in a role that's totally not him - similar to the Wilkinson/CM thing - as @Casagolda mentions it looks like we brought Wilko in with a view to sticking with the 3412 that worked last season but have since pivoted to the variations of this box midfield and the 523 despite us having to shoehorn players into these roles. I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not we're going to be actively recruiting to allow us to play players in their actual positions during this window ie: if (as seems to be the case) Wilkinson's being sacrificed is that to bring in a better fit or is it just the case that he hurt Kettlewell's feelings by telling the press he'd never played centre mid in his life and had no idea what he was doing when he was chucked in there. Incidentally, I don't think there's a chance that we cancel Shaw's loan. I think Kettlewell is entirely invested in him. Edited January 2 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 hours ago, Oh Well said: Don't get your point mate.. a bunch of weans? Hibs had 2 x 16 year olds and a 17 year old on the park today and they still dominated and bossed our so called 1st team choice.. I really don't think you can call yesterday "our so called 1st team choice". We literally had to make two changes because two players who started on Saturday were injured. Three others who have been nailed on starters when fit - Miller, Casey and Spencer - were missing too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 23 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said: I really don't think you can call yesterday "our so called 1st team choice". We literally had to make two changes because two players who started on Saturday were injured. Three others who have been nailed on starters when fit - Miller, Casey and Spencer - were missing too. Absolutely. I spent many years going to Easter Rd when we had so called better teams and squads and hardly ever saw us record wins. Both teams were light on numbers yesterday as well documented but it does not change the fact that Hibs have a bigger and more expensively assembled squad. That and they were at home yesterday having had a free weekend to recharge. A draw however it was achieved was a decent result on the back of our 1st win in a long time. Edited January 3 by welldaft 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) We are missing Miller badly. The midfield's ball retention must be the worst in the league. Davor & Spittal are slightly better with it but Slattery and particularly Paton are murder at holding onto the ball. Again the gaping hole where a half decent 6 should be is showing. Edited January 3 by well fan for life 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, well fan for life said: We are missing Miller badly. The midfield's ball retention must be the worst in the league. Davor & Spittal are slightly better with it but Slattery and particularly Paton are murder at holding onto the ball. Again the gaping hole where a half decent 6 should be is showing. Completely agree, said similar about yesterday's performance in particular. Get that Hibs are a team we'll allow to have the ball but the number of stray passes yesterday seemed to be ridiculously high. Am I right in saying Miller is due back mid January? Hopefully that's the case, the lad is a class act and has become one of our most important players. Last thing on yesterday, given some of the comments on social media, I was expecting McGhee chucking Ainsworth under the bus levels of comments from Kettlewell about Gent, are we now just at the stage where whatever Kettlewell says will be overanalysed, as well as recent form being overlooked to focus on the absolutely horrific run without a win? While I'd rather he didn't name specific players, he prefaced it with saying how good Gent has been for us and that it's a learning curve. I took it more as him trying to remind folk he's a rookie and to get ahead of any harsh criticism that might come the way of Gent. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliphas Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Ketts over analyses everything so we get to too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 20 minutes ago, MurrayWell said: Completely agree, said similar about yesterday's performance in particular. Get that Hibs are a team we'll allow to have the ball but the number of stray passes yesterday seemed to be ridiculously high. Am I right in saying Miller is due back mid January? Hopefully that's the case, the lad is a class act and has become one of our most important players. Last thing on yesterday, given some of the comments on social media, I was expecting McGhee chucking Ainsworth under the bus levels of comments from Kettlewell about Gent, are we now just at the stage where whatever Kettlewell says will be overanalysed, as well as recent form being overlooked to focus on the absolutely horrific run without a win? While I'd rather he didn't name specific players, he prefaced it with saying how good Gent has been for us and that it's a learning curve. I took it more as him trying to remind folk he's a rookie and to get ahead of any harsh criticism that might come the way of Gent. Aye. 100% this. That's definitely how I saw the Kettlewell post-match as well. It feels like there's a strong element of folk projecting what they want on to it. I genuinely didn't think anything of it beyond him reminding folk that he's still a young laddie who's on a learning curve to pre-empt any criticism then I saw someone on Twitter criticising Kettlewell for "digging Gent out" and I was like, "Huh?" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said: I really don't think you can call yesterday "our so called 1st team choice". We literally had to make two changes because two players who started on Saturday were injured. Three others who have been nailed on starters when fit - Miller, Casey and Spencer - were missing too. Definitely. I don't think the point @dezz was making was particularly difficult to understand either. It was a case of Kettlewell trying to make something work given the circumstances. I mentioned this in the match thread but given the timing and our injuries and Hibs call ups yesterday was a fixture that seemed to be a pain in the arse for both sides and it's fair comment to point out that Hibs were hamstrung as well. We were missing 5 players who have had regular first team involvement in Blaney, Shaw, Miller, Casey and Spencer (4 of them starters, the other our most used sub) plus Wilkinson and I guess we haven't had the opportunity to replace Souaré either. For a squad whose numbers have been trimmed on instruction missing 6 or 7 players through injury, suspension or as yet undeclared reasons is a problem. The fact that a glance at our bench saw 5 school weans, Nathan McGinley (who hasn't kicked a baw since getting 1 (ONE) minute off the bench against Hearts in September) and a substitute goalkeeper suggests that our squad was stretched pretty fucking thin. From the 9 subs available only 2 have had any sort of regular first team football and both of those of those are coming back from long term injuries. I mean, there are legitimate questions about how you choose to set up in those circumstances and the broader issue of squad building but calling that "our so called 1st team choice" is a laugh. We had Bevis being flanked by two full backs with Blair Spittal ending up at wing back (again) and Calum Slattery wide right FFS. Don't get me wrong some of those may well be Ketts making weird choices but either way that is literally no one's first choice anything. Edited January 3 by capt_oats 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 13 minutes ago, capt_oats said: The fact that a glance at our bench saw 5 school weans, Nathan McGinley (who hasn't kicked a baw since getting 1 (ONE) minute off the bench against Hearts in September) and a substitute goalkeeper suggests that our squad was stretched pretty fucking thin. From the 9 subs available only 2 have had any sort of regular first team football and both of those of those are coming back from a long term injuries. Yesterday showed how ridiculously stretched we are - there were quite a few players looking absolutely knackered in the last 15-20 mins and we had no options to replace them and freshen things up. On Gent - I thought he had a perfectly decent game - for an inexperienced, raw young player - but that obviously doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes. If we are going to bring U23/academy players up from England on loan (which I think is something worth doing as there are clearly players available who would be decent for us that aren't getting near 1st team down there) then we need to live with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Just now, Busta Nut said: Awk, that's pish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke92 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Aye, to be honest some of the comments on the post match re Gent were nonsense. Nothing new from Twitter though, most of the stuff on there is best off ignored. I like Gent going forward but I think he is really lacking defensively. He was really ropey in the Rangers game as well. Clearly thats why we have on loan though. Disappointing regarding Spencer, I thought he was decent. HIs form hasn't been as good as when he came into the team but he still has really good pace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Spencer leaving fucks us. SOD is done and may just be an acceptable RCB but McGinn is much better there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: Spencer leaving fucks us. SOD is done and may just be an acceptable RCB but McGinn is much better there. Time for Moult to return and just play there eh? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 So this probably leaves us needing a RWB/RB, a 6 and a centre half at minimum. Leaves our paper thin squad looking even thinner than thin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) Spencer leaving is annoying, as is the fact that we had him playing LWB for the majority of his time here. I guess we'll have had a heads up about their intention to excercise their recall option in advance. Anyway, here's an updated squad list (which I suspect will be seeing a few more amends in the near future): On 04/06/2023 at 23:41, capt_oats said: Goalkeepers: 1. Liam Kelly (27) - 2024 13. Aston Oxborough (25) - 2024 Defenders: 2. Stephen O'Donnell (31) - 2024 3. Georgie Gent (19) - 2024 - season loan from Blackburn Rovers 5. Bevis Mugabi (28) - 2024 15. Dan Casey (25) - 2025 16. Paul McGinn (32) - 2024 19. Nathan McGinley (27) - 2024 20. Shane Blaney (24) - 2025 66. Calum Butcher (32) - 2024 Midfielders: 7. Blair Spittal (27) - 2024 8. Callum Slattery (24) - 2024 12. Harry Paton (25) - 2025 17. Davor Zdravkovski (25) - 2025 38. Lennon Miller (16) - 2026 39. Luca Ross (16) - 2025 Forwards: 9. Jon Obika (32) - 2024 + 1 year option 14. Thelonius Bair (23) - 2025 18. Oli Shaw (25) - 2024 - season loan from Barnsley 24. Mika Biereth (20) - 2024 - season loan from Arsenal 99. Conor Wilkinson (28) - 2025 In 19/06/23 - Jon Obika (from Morecambe - free transfer) 04/07/23 - Conor Wilkinson (from Walsall - free transfer) 17/07/23 - Pape Souaré (from Morecambe - free transfer) 21/07/23 - Davor Zdravkovski (from AEL Limassol - free transfer) 01/08/23 - Thelonius Bair (from St Johnstone - free transfer) In (Loan) 03/08/23 - Mika Biereth (from Arsenal - season) 24/08/23 - Brodie Spencer (from Huddersfield Town - season) 31/08/23 - Oli Shaw (from Barnsley - season) 01/09/23 - Georgie Gent (from Blackburn Rovers - season) Out (Loan) 14/07/23 - Robbie Mahon (to Edinburgh City - season) 15/07/23 - Sam Campbell (to Annan Athletic - to January '24) 24/07/23 - Ross Tierney (to Walsall - season) 04/08/23 - Adam MacDonald (to Cowdenbeath - season) 18/08/23 - Barry Maguire (to Kidderminster Harriers - to January 24) 25/08/23 - Robbie Garcia (to Cowdenbeath - to January 24) 26/08/23 - Ricki Lamie (to Dundee - season) 29/09/23 - Mark Ferrie (to Stenhousemuir - to January 24) 29/09/23 - Ewan Wilson (to Stirling Albion - season) 30/09/23 - Nathan McGinley (to Partick Thistle - to January 24) 22/12/23 - Matty Connelly (to East Kilbride - season) 03/01/24 - Brodie Spencer (to Huddersfield Town - loan recall option excercised) Out 20/06/23 - Kevin Van Veen (to FC Groningen - undisclosed ) 22/06/23 - Dean Cornelius (to Harrogate Town - undisclosed) 24/07/23 - Riku Danzaki (to Western United - free) 25/07/23 - Max Johnston (to Sturm Graz - £300k - development compensation) 26/07/23 - Connor Shields (to Chennaiyin FC - free) 09/08/23 - Ali Gould (to Watford u21) 16/09/23 - Joe Efford (to PAS Giannina - free) 01/02/24 - Pape Souaré (contract expired) Players confirmed departing club at end of contract: Jake Carroll Logan Dunachie (signed for Clyde) Daniel Hunter (signed for Broomhill) Kian Spiers (signed for Caledonian Braves) Jack Aitchison (signed for Exeter City) David Devine (signed for Alloa) Corey O'Donnell (signed for Broomhill) Max Johnston (signed for Sturm Graz) Sean Goss (signed for Asteras Tripoli) Mikael Mandron (signed for St Mirren) Loans expired: Stuart McKinstry (signed for Queens Park) James Furlong (sold to Hull City) Oli Crankshaw (signed for Altrincham) Jon Obika (signed for Motherwell) Contracted players released: Josh Morris Riku Danzaki Joe Efford Edited January 3 by capt_oats 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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