Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, eliphas said:

Based entirely on rumours or on info about the deal you shouldn't be party to yet?

Nah, not only. I also can't understand why someone would want to invest in a Scottish football team. Never mind someone who has zero links to the club or town. That's just off putting. 





As for the noisy singing/ultra section. I reckon they just want more exposure. 

[rowsdower]

I don't like the idea of telling some fans to move to accommodate others, especially in the family stand, which also has some accessibility benefits compared to the other stands, as mentioned earlier.

A large number of supporters of most teams just want to watch the game, and have either grown out of putting on a display for the players (or more accurately, themselves), or don't care about it. 

I don't mind ultras groups, and it's nice to have a group of energetic fans, but they're not special and don't deserve to be treated any different from other fans.  The idea that they're doing the club/players/fans a service can get in the sea as well.

[welldaft]

4 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

Nah, not only. I also can't understand why someone would want to invest in a Scottish football team. Never mind someone who has zero links to the club or town. That's just off putting. 

Kind of where I am at and have stated previously. I want what is best for the club and fans. It is clear to all we could benefit from outside investment. We are running at continual losses which is unsustainable. Getting potentially decent transfers for Bair and Miller down the road will help in the short term. But having someone subsidise the club when needed would be greatly beneficial.

I just don’t understand why Barmack is interested. It genuinely seems to be a strange one. I get why anyone would fall in love with Motherwell. And there are plenty of Americans investing in all levels of football in Scotland and the UK. But I worry the novelty would wear off and we would be back at square one. 

Beggars cannot be choosers as the saying goes. I just wish someone based in Scotland and would be perhaps more hands on would be a better option. But clearly one that does not appear to exist at the moment .

[Handsome_Devil]

2 hours ago, welldaft said:

Kind of where I am at and have stated previously. I want what is best for the club and fans. It is clear to all we could benefit from outside investment. We are running at continual losses which is unsustainable. Getting potentially decent transfers for Bair and Miller down the road will help in the short term. But having someone subsidise the club when needed would be greatly beneficial.

I just don’t understand why Barmack is interested. It genuinely seems to be a strange one. I get why anyone would fall in love with Motherwell. And there are plenty of Americans investing in all levels of football in Scotland and the UK. But I worry the novelty would wear off and we would be back at square one. 

Beggars cannot be choosers as the saying goes. I just wish someone based in Scotland and would be perhaps more hands on would be a better option. But clearly one that does not appear to exist at the moment .

The first bold bit is simply not true. @capt_oats has posted the p/l since we became fan owned and over the decade or whatever - certainly long enough to smooth out good or bad luck - we're comfortably in the black.

It should be clear to all we could benefit from an external investor but it should also be clear to all we could be damaged by an external investor. Perhaps massively so.

EB is interested because he thinks he will make money. Simultaneously, I imagine a lot of us are cautious because we think he thinks can make money here

As for the second bold bit, we absolutely can be choosers in this scenario. One of the reasons EB is interested in us is the very fact we're incredibly well run (financially at least) and are very far from being beggars.

Obviously people are free to wait till details are available to decide. Others will weigh up the information, including the sources it comes from, and begin to form opinions before the offer lands on the doormat. In that regard, I'm very similar to @Busta Nut - I wouldn't actually be telling him to gtf and never darken our door again but it seems quite probable we're miles off agreeing a suitable deal. And in that case, a friendly parting of the ways is a better option than continuing fruitless negotiations, for various reasons.

 

Edited May 23 by Handsome_Devil

[Swello]

The Bois should forget about the Cooper, the Main Stand would be the place to be - plenty of spare seats, good visibility and lots of handy combustible material for displays. I'm sure the folk in there would welcome a bit of noise and excitement too..

[welldaft]

2 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

The first bold bit is simply not true. @capt_oats has posted the p/l since we became fan owned and over the decade or whatever - certainly long enough to smooth out good or bad luck - we're comfortably in the black.

I saw those figures and I understand that for the most part we have been well run. But the Directors and the new CEO have stated (including in the very latest video) that we are running at a loss. Maybe we did not do so every year over the last decade. In fact we rarely did. But we now are. Probably because the cost of everything has increased dramatically including most notably energy costs. 

I already said we could sell Bair and then Lennon and that would hopefully assist for the next few seasons. But as things stand we have lost money over the past few seasons and that is no doubt what has been focussing the mind around our push for external investment. 

I am quite sure all concerned would have hoped for a wealthy investor with deep pockets.  But it appears the only show in town is Erik Barmack. We should find out soon enough whether the length of time it is taking to weigh up his offer is for the reasons you mention above. 

[well fan for life]

13 hours ago, Cloontang said:

Way off topic now but this guy is some carry on. Big long video in the spoilers about it but it's a good watch. 

[Al B]

Absolutely wouldn't be wanting the Block E stuff in the Cooper.

In fact, if there's any way they could be further away from me than the far end of the East, I'd support that motion.

The foundations of their idea are great, but for me their methods of carrying it out are annoying as f**k and are counter-productive.

[thisGRAEME]

34 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I saw those figures and I understand that for the most part we have been well run. But the Directors and the new CEO have stated (including in the very latest video) that we are running at a loss. Maybe we did not do so every year over the last decade. In fact we rarely did. But we now are. Probably because the cost of everything has increased dramatically including most notably energy costs. 

And that's fine, but as stated; we have not been running at a loss. Some years we lose money, some years we don't, that's broadly how things work?

This year, we may be? There is also a context to that in that we paid off two dud managers and about half a team of duds signed by those two dud managers (Josh Morris' contract is about to come to an end, for example).

So to latterly come around and say "Actually no we can't afford anything anymore" when you've done the equivalent of chucking all your wages on sweeties and crisps and can't pay your leccy? I dunno man, I've got more questions for them than they're providing answers.

The Bois in the Cooper, in an ideal world, would be class IMO. The reality is that it probably uproots a stack of people and causes more problems than it solves, so it'd surprise me certainly. 

[well fan for life]

2 minutes ago, Al B said:

Absolutely wouldn't be wanting the Block E stuff in the Cooper.

In fact, if there's any way they could be further away from me than the far end of the East, I'd support that motion.

The foundations of their idea are great, but for me their methods of carrying it out are annoying as f**k and are counter-productive.

This is where I stand...or rather sit. 

The Cooper has a lot of families sitting in it from folk with kids, to folk sitting with their grandparents. It's the only stand that you don't need to go up a flight of stairs to get in to so it makes sense for it to remain the "family stand". From attending away games and being closer to them I'm no really sure I'd want to be sitting in it every week and I'm no bringing weans along with me. 

I appreciate they make a lot of noise from the Hunter stand but they also do some weird stuff. Like encouraging all supporters to wear claret & amber for the final home game then unveiling a red, white & blue Bologna banner for...some reason? I like Bologna a lot. It's a beautiful city and their team is doing well but I'm no sure where that came from. If it's the Ferguson/Scottish thing then even Accies would have more a reason to do that. Pyro/smoke also adds hee haw for me other than being stinking.

 

 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

I saw those figures and I understand that for the most part we have been well run. But the Directors and the new CEO have stated (including in the very latest video) that we are running at a loss. Maybe we did not do so every year over the last decade. In fact we rarely did. But we now are. Probably because the cost of everything has increased dramatically including most notably energy costs. 

I already said we could sell Bair and then Lennon and that would hopefully assist for the next few seasons. But as things stand we have lost money over the past few seasons and that is no doubt what has been focussing the mind around our push for external investment. 

Maybe I've missed it but I've only heard them say the gap between 'guaranteed' income and the amount needed to be competitive is growing to a level they don't like.

Our operating loss in the last couple of seasons has been entirely reasonable, to the level it actually shows that our model works. The headline numbers are misleading, to an extent you wonder at the agenda of McMahon and Weir when they push them. There is not a company in the world who would be concerned at bottom line losses years two and three having decided to reinvest a large percentage of year one profits in capex and we shouldn't be either.

We certainly need to look at raising revenues, as a club and now the Society too, but we're still a million miles from handing the farm to an outsider for a pittance. If that doesn't work we need to make hard decisions but let's get there first.

The dream remains EB offers us fair value for a minority stake to carry out his ideas but if not we should walk away.

 

[Desp]

I see Brian Caldwell has pretty much came out and said the Cooper move isn't happening, which is fair enough when it's the end of May and the season tickets are on sale.  He also said he's planning a meeting with them soon, which is nice to hear.  I hope the young lads treat him with the same respect they've been shown and don't just throw a tantrum because they're not getting what they want, when they want.

I don't see any issue in giving the youngsters the Cooper Stand for a cup tie or two, when season tickets aren't in play.  Just to see if it's even decent or not.  All the stuff they do absolutely isn't for me, but I understand not everything is about me or to accommodate my tastes.  They bring some fantastic colour and atmosphere to games (although, quick request... the drum doesn't need to be battered every second of every minute of the game. Music is about timing, isn't it?) and full credit to them for it, although I do find some of the chants/actions absolutely chronic.  

There's absolutely room for them and also for the folk who want nothing to do with it.  Compromise and understanding is the key.  Who knows, maybe by the end of the year, me and my mates will be going to Fir Park in matching jaikets & balaclavas.*

 

 

*we definitely won't.

[Busta Nut]

52 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

 

I appreciate they make a lot of noise from the Hunter stand but they also do some weird stuff. Like encouraging all supporters to wear claret & amber for the final home game then unveiling a red, white & blue Bologna banner for...some reason? I like Bologna a lot. It's a beautiful city and their team is doing well but I'm no sure where that came from. If it's the Ferguson/Scottish thing then even Accies would have more a reason to do that. Pyro/smoke also adds hee haw for me other than being stinking.

 

 

There is a few of them that have been to Bologna games a few times. Dunno how it started but I've seen it from a few guys I know. (i'm actually insanely jealous) It's the same NEC and Aalesunds. Except there is a fairly obvious link there. I actually agree with all you've said

8 minutes ago, Desp said:

*we definitely won't.

[Vietnam91]

5 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

 

Playing the enemy at the paintballing?

[Self-raising Lazarus]

22 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

There is a few of them that have been to Bologna games a few times. Dunno how it started but I've seen it from a few guys I know. (i'm actually insanely jealous) It's the same NEC and Aalesunds. Except there is a fairly obvious link there. I actually agree with all you've said

Genuinely interested in the link between motherwell and Bologna? 

 

[well fan for life]

15 hours ago, camer0n_mcd said:

Incase anyone else hadn't seen the proposed Bois/Block E move into the Davie Cooper stand.

 

 

I've just re-read this there and that statement is stinking man. "We have decided amongst ourselves that The Cooper is better for us so we want to move there and pap folk off their seats"

Absolutely dripping with self-entitlement. 

[Vietnam91]

42 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

Genuinely interested in the link between motherwell and Bologna? 

 

Every other team has already formed an association on the ultra equivalent of P&B and nobody will touch Lazio? 

[JamesP_81]

I'd be quite happy to see them moved to the top tier of the McLean stand.  It's rarely occupied , sound will amplify and travel further and think of the tifos they could hang off that roof . Can't see any issues tbh.  

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Maybe I've missed it but I've only heard them say the gap between 'guaranteed' income and the amount needed to be competitive is growing to a level they don't like.

You say ying…I say yang. We could debate all day about our finances and I do not disagree with your points. All well made.

But unless I am missing something fairly obvious. That gap you speak of is going to lead to losses and if not relegation in the very near future. I get we are by and large a well run club. But to be competitive we could do with outside investment. Also to help with potential losses that are being predicted. 

Maybe there is another agenda at work. But I kinda subscribe to the theory that the Chairman, Directors and even our new CEO know a little more about future business plans and funds needed than your average Motherwell fan myself included. 

[Swello]

13 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I've just re-read this there and that statement is stinking man. "We have decided amongst ourselves that The Cooper is better for us so we want to move there and pap folk off their seats"

Absolutely dripping with self-entitlement. 

I like them being in the East stand where I sit, and have been right next to them (and even in the middle of them a couple of times) at away games and have always preferred listening to their noise than angry 50- and 60-somethings moaning like f**k for 90 mins - but the Cooper thing is a non-starter and that statement thing isn't going to help them.

Season tickets are literally the life blood of clubs like ours and with terracings a distant memory, folk get attached to "their" seat and "their" stand in a way that wasn't a thing in the past (I've sat in the same seat since the East Stand was converted and I'd be going full Charlton Heston at the NRA if I was getting told to move). The idea that the club would go out their way to piss off long term season ticket holders (and especially families) in the Cooper at a time where we are coming off a piss poor season of home form at Fir Park and are down on season ticket sales is *completely* unrealistic.

I think despite some annoyances, the Section E team have still got a lot of goodwill from the rest of the support - it's not worth trashing that completely for a vanity project like this.