StAndrew7 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I know nothing about shares and such but I keep seeing the 49% thing and I get why it is mentioned, but how does that work if about 26% (or whatever it is) of shares currently don't belong to the Society? Surely those guys either need to disappear or in order for EB to get 49%, the Society needs to end up with even less? If EB gets 49%, I assume the hope is the Society keeps 51%, so where do all the other go? We assuming he buys those shares? How do the folk who want this guy to invest think the divvy of shares will end up? Or hope they will end up? I honestly don't know either; I guess that will depend on what the heads of terms state the proposal is. If things do go ahead, there's a situation that might arise where the Society is still the majority shareholder in the club, but holds less than 50% based on the different chunks that are floating about. It might be an aggregate of fan ownership with the private holders voting pooling with the WS, or some other means of doing it. Equally, it might end up that EB gets less, but effectively still becomes the second biggest individual shareholder in the club. Say the Society retains 51%, he then gets for argument's sake, 25ish% with the remaining 25% in the hands of individuals. One of McMahon/Weir said that there were about 24-28% in private hands; around 20% or so of that was in the hands of two, maybe three individuals, with the remainder in smaller owners like myself and quite a few others. Perhaps @capt_oats / @Vietnam91 / someone else who was at the AGM as well can confirm those rough figures. So it may well be that EB ends up buying the 20% from the two/three individuals to boost his holding, then the "smaller" shareholders still retain theirs? There was also talk of the investment being over 3/4/5 years, so the shareholding will build up rather than be a click of the fingers and it's done type of exercise. From my perspective, I don't want to sell/give up my personal shares, as they've been a part of my family for the best part of 70 years now. Edited May 23 by StAndrew7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I know nothing about shares and such but I keep seeing the 49% thing and I get why it is mentioned, but how does that work if about 26% (or whatever it is) of shares currently don't belong to the Society? Surely those guys either need to disappear or in order for EB to get 49%, the Society needs to end up with even less? If EB gets 49%, I assume the hope is the Society keeps 51%, so where do all the other go? We assuming he buys those shares? How do the folk who want this guy to invest think the divvy of shares will end up? Or hope they will end up? If new shares are created to dilute the number. To make is easier, if the minority holders are not bought out... and say for ease the current split is 75-25. After the new shares, and if the investor buys enough to have 51%, the Well Society's share will be 3/4 of 49% around 37%, while the minorities combined will be 12%ish. If the newbie gets 49% without buying out the minority share holders then Well Society will be left with 38%ish - Which unless The Society had a memorandum of understanding with the minority shareholders would mean they cannot say for certain that any dodgy crap will be blocked (and tbh, not sure such a memorandum would be legal). To make sure that it is impossible for the investor to take control, Well Society would need 51% after the purchase - so meaning the new investor can only purchase 37% of new shares/sold from Well Society. Edited May 23 by Antiochas III 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vietnam91 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) There are 300,831 shares in circulation. The WS currently hold 71.7%. The rest are held by a number of people (the list is available at companies house - however is both out of date and incorrect, my name isn’t on the list despite holding mine for over 10 years). The vast majority of the other 28.3% are held by 4-5 individuals. At the AGM it was explained that to facilitate anything new shares would be issued (at present the maximum the WS could surrender is 21.6% to remain majority owner). Suppose it would be some sort of dilution similar to how Fergus McCann refinanced the building of Parkhead and Sevco did a few times in the last decade. At the same AGM we were told the money involved was “not transformational” therefore it seems quite a lot of hassle and faff when a more robust and hungry commercial department stewarded by our new CEO could be bringing in ball park roughly what is rumoured. But as I said a few weeks back, ownership is one thing, control is another. Kibble control St Mirren despite holding 27% which seems counter productive to the whole fan ownership model. Edited May 23 by Vietnam91 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 16 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said: But as I said a few weeks back, ownership is one thing, control is another. Kibble control St Mirren despite holding 27% which seems counter productive to the whole fan ownership model. We don't need to look any further than ourselves for this - the Well Society doesn't "control" the club in any meaningful sense as things stand - something that would actually have to change for me to vote (either as a private shareholder or as a 'Well society member) for any incoming investor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 Sorry to move the chat away from shareholdings and investor stuff but is this a low key acknowledgement of Slattery sticking around or just us giving mixed messages on the comms front? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 I'm not sure folk realise that this guy can't get 49% without the WS losing control of the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 10 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Sorry to move the chat away from shareholdings and investor stuff but is this a low key acknowledgement of Slattery sticking around or just us giving mixed messages on the comms front? You'd imagine we've offered him a deal eh? Had a great start to the season and must be due back quite soon. Noticed he was walking about without a moon boot or crutches after the game on Sunday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 14 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I'm not sure folk realise that this guy can't get 49% without the WS losing control of the club. Aye, I always kinda knew the maths didn't work for 51/49 (I tended to use it as an illustrative/hypothetical way of saying the WS shouldn't lose control) without private shareholders selling up, or at least joining the WS as a voting block etc. although as @Antiochas III says, how legal that is I'm not 100% sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 23 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Sorry to move the chat away from shareholdings and investor stuff but is this a low key acknowledgement of Slattery sticking around or just us giving mixed messages on the comms front? Fingers crossed, it gives us a much stronger midfield if he's around next season and it's one less gap to plug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 24 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Sorry to move the chat away from shareholdings and investor stuff but is this a low key acknowledgement of Slattery sticking around or just us giving mixed messages on the comms front? Some way to announce you've signed Dunne and van Veen. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 All this percentage and shares chat honestly just reminds me why I do words and talking and not numbers. Means absolutely nothing to me 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, capt_oats said: Sorry to move the chat away from shareholdings and investor stuff but is this a low key acknowledgement of Slattery sticking around or just us giving mixed messages on the comms front? He's doing a Craig Tanner, presumably. As in signing a deal to get him fit and playing. Bonus if he scores loads against Dundee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, MurrayWell said: You'd imagine we've offered him a deal eh? Had a great start to the season and must be due back quite soon. Noticed he was walking about without a moon boot or crutches after the game on Sunday. I mean, it would be an even weirder thing to post if we hadn't offered him a new deal. 5 minutes ago, well fan for life said: He's doing a Craig Tanner, presumably. As in signing a deal to get him fit and playing. Bonus if he scores loads against Dundee. Aye, I assumed that's what would happen with him although I wouldn't have thought it'd be a given that he's take that offer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, capt_oats said: Sorry to move the chat away from shareholdings and investor stuff but is this a low key acknowledgement of Slattery sticking around or just us giving mixed messages on the comms front? Don't mistake this for a football thread. Tbf, I don't think anyone expected us not to do the decent thing with an offer. How many clubs will sign a guy halfway through cruciate recovery? Why would he volunteer to go solo? So a deal of convenience (if he previously wanted away which was kind of assumed but not certain) was always quite likely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 7 minutes ago, capt_oats said: I mean, it would be an even weirder thing to post if we hadn't offered him a new deal. Given our social channel form this season, you never know. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vietnam91 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, Swello said: We don't need to look any further than ourselves for this - the Well Society doesn't "control" the club in any meaningful sense as things stand - something that would actually have to change for me to vote (either as a private shareholder or as a 'Well society member) for any incoming investor. Yeah and that is something definitely by design rather than evolved organically. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliphas Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Busta Nut said: I'm not sure folk realise that this guy can't get 49% without the WS losing control of the club. Yeah I'm not sure the people jumping on the German bandwagon and bumping gums about 50+1 really know the club set up is. It's been very well put above but it's definitely entirely possible to construct a new share structure that leaves the majority or a controlling share in the hands of the WS. But it's more nuanced than 51/49. I'm neither here nor there with a black and white view on the WS controlling or a new investor controlling to be quite honest. As I've said before, the WS have lost a lot of good will from me over the years but the recent moves have been promising. I guess until I see the strategy that is being worked on by the WS (and hope it goes past rattling buckets and playing on the FP pitch) I've got no more or less confidence in the WS or an investor or a combo of the two. Like I said a million pages ago as well - even if the investor stuff doesn't pan out and all of this was the disruption required to get the WS to rejig themselves and stop sitting on their hands then that is a great outcome too. Edited May 23 by eliphas 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 17 minutes ago, MurrayWell said: Given our social channel form this season, you never know. They've put out content from four out of contract players this week (SOD, Kelly, Mugabi and Slattery) and still no list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 The takeover chat bores me to death. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 26 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said: They've put out content from four out of contract players this week (SOD, Kelly, Mugabi and Slattery) and still no list. Did hear that we'd be waiting a while for the list at the game on Sunday, which has turned out to be the case (I'm considering a working week to be while in Scottish football). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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