Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[thisGRAEME]

2 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Emptied as in put on loan to Morton and still paying 75%+ of their wages.

If we can get rid of Alex Fisher and make money off Ryan Bowman, we can do anything!

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I've no idea how they're getting on wherever they are but either Aarons or Ariyibi coming back in January seems very on brand.

[Ron Aldo]

I've no idea how they're getting on wherever they are but either Aarons or Ariyibi coming back in January seems very on brand.

I Googled both out of interest. Aarons is (surprisingly) still at Newcastle. I thought he'd have been out on loan again as he's presumably nowhere near the first team. Gboly is still kicking about Greece with his team sitting second bottom of the league.

Going back a few posts and comparing Mccall/Robinson and having to rebuild their teams every season, that is true but Mccall was making signings Robinson could probably only dream of. In the 13/14 season we signed Vigurs and Paul Lawson off the back of them having an excellent season at County. We beat Hibs (if I remember correctly) to sign Stephen Mcmanus and we also signed big handsome John Sutton. You could also add Anier to that list of very decent signings, all of who would no doubt be on a good wage.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 hour ago, Ron Aldo said:

I Googled both out of interest. Aarons is (surprisingly) still at Newcastle. I thought he'd have been out on loan again as he's presumably nowhere near the first team. Gboly is still kicking about Greece with his team sitting second bottom of the league.

Going back a few posts and comparing Mccall/Robinson and having to rebuild their teams every season, that is true but Mccall was making signings Robinson could probably only dream of. In the 13/14 season we signed Vigurs and Paul Lawson off the back of them having an excellent season at County. We beat Hibs (if I remember correctly) to sign Stephen Mcmanus and we also signed big handsome John Sutton. You could also add Anier to that list of very decent signings, all of who would no doubt be on a good wage.

I'll tell you right now that Tommy Wright is raging at this post.

[thisGRAEME]

48 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I'll tell you right now that Tommy Wright is raging at this post.

Good.

[Casagolda]

18 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Fwiw, this isn't meant as an 'In Praise of Stephen Robinson' type post but more an idea of the sort of stress that the model puts on the squad when we're having to replace anywhere between 2-5 of our best players on an annual basis.

I think it’s a good point, I mean there can’t be many windows since Robinson’s been here that we haven’t actually sold a player? 

It’s hard enough when we sell a Turnbull or a Scott after only 30 odd games for the club.  You now also see guys like McAlear(just made his debut for Norwich) or McKinstry(signed a new 3 year deal at Leeds) getting sold before Robinson can even get them in the team. 

So even though I do think some of his recruitment has been questionable and deserves criticism, I do have sympathy with Robinson. Constantly having to juggle losing your best players and best prospects, whilst trying to keep us competitive on a bottom 6 budget seems like a fairly thankless task tbh.  

Given we’ve already sold Turnbull, if he steers clear of relegation and chucks in a few youngsters before the seasons end, then he’s basically hitting every objective asked of him by the club(again).

[well fan for life]

16 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Emptied as in put on loan to Morton and still paying 75%+ of their wages.

See as long as I don't have to see Jordan White or that gormless c**t Lamie in a Motherwell shirt again? I'm alright with this as a set up. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

13 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

 We beat Hibs (if I remember correctly) to sign Stephen Mcmanus 

I was buzzing when we signed McManus. Before he came to us, any time I seen him for Celtic and Scotland, I thought he looked like a good proper defender, a good leader and a threat from set pieces. However,  he must be right up there with signings I've got excited about that didn't work out that well. Despite the obvious highlights like the goal at Ibrox and the winner against Thistle, it just almost seemed that whether directly or indirectly his fault, he played in Motherwell teams which badly leaked goals.

I guess that you have to sympathise with him to a degree that after Hutchy left, his partners at the back were underwhelming at best and he didn't exactly play with a top-class goalkeeper, but still the stats don't look well upon him.

His four seasons for us:

13/14: League position 2nd, Goals Conceded 60 (8th in league)

14/15: League position 11th, Goals Conceded 63 (Joint 10th/11th in league)

15/16: League position 5th, Goals Conceded 63 (Joint 9th/10th in the league)

16/17: League position 9th, Goals Conceded 69 (11th in the league)

 

[thisGRAEME]

23 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I was buzzing when we signed McManus. Before he came to us, any time I seen him for Celtic and Scotland, I thought he looked like a good proper defender, a good leader and a threat from set pieces. However,  he must be right up there with signings I've got excited about that didn't work out that well. Despite the obvious highlights like the goal at Ibrox and the winner against Thistle, it just almost seemed that whether directly or indirectly his fault, he played in Motherwell teams which badly leaked goals.

I guess that you have to sympathise with him to a degree that after Hutchy left, his partners at the back were underwhelming at best and he didn't exactly play with a top-class goalkeeper, but still the stats don't look well upon him.

His four seasons for us:

13/14: League position 2nd, Goals Conceded 60 (8th in league)

14/15: League position 11th, Goals Conceded 63 (Joint 10th/11th in league)

15/16: League position 5th, Goals Conceded 63 (Joint 9th/10th in the league)

16/17: League position 9th, Goals Conceded 69 (11th in the league)

 

He did score from a set-piece at Ibrox though, sooooo

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Casagolda said:

I think it’s a good point, I mean there can’t be many windows since Robinson’s been here that we haven’t actually sold a player? 

It’s hard enough when we sell a Turnbull or a Scott after only 30 odd games for the club.  You now also see guys like McAlear (just made his debut for Norwich) or McKinstry (signed a new 3 year deal at Leeds) getting sold before Robinson can even get them in the team. 

So even though I do think some of his recruitment has been questionable and deserves criticism, I do have sympathy with Robinson. Constantly having to juggle losing your best players and best prospects, whilst trying to keep us competitive on a bottom 6 budget seems like a fairly thankless task tbh.  

Given we’ve already sold Turnbull, if he steers clear of relegation and chucks in a few youngsters before the seasons end, then he’s basically hitting every objective asked of him by the club (again).

Aye, I mean...we got a season out Kipré, would have had a season out of Turnbull had it not been for his knee-knack. Even Beneghan was only here a season. It's a quick turnover.

January 18/19 is the only window I don't think we've made a sale.

Sold:
17/18: Heneghan (Sheffield Utd - summer), Moult (Preston - January)
18/19: Kipre (Wigan - summer)
19/20: Hastie* (Rangers - summer), McKinstry (Leeds - summer), McAlear (Norwich - summer), Scott (Hull - January)
20/21: Turnbull (Celtic - summer)

* - Hastie wasn't really a sale it was a development fee.

The obvious issue is that you're pulling a 'finished product' player out the side that we won't be able to replace on our budget.

We've still not replaced Moult's 18 goals a season up front (though Turnbull did it from midfield). Moving Kipré on had a knock on as to how the back 3 worked that season, in so much as it fell apart and we saw the dip in form directly after Scott left.

Ironically, given the fee he went for, Turnbull's probably the player whose sale has impacted the least with Polworth coming in, although even then we've missed the goals from midfield he brought.

Edited December 2, 2020 by capt_oats

[Ron Aldo]

I was buzzing when we signed McManus. Before he came to us, any time I seen him for Celtic and Scotland, I thought he looked like a good proper defender, a good leader and a threat from set pieces. However,  he must be right up there with signings I've got excited about that didn't work out that well. Despite the obvious highlights like the goal at Ibrox and the winner against Thistle, it just almost seemed that whether directly or indirectly his fault, he played in Motherwell teams which badly leaked goals.
I guess that you have to sympathise with him to a degree that after Hutchy left, his partners at the back were underwhelming at best and he didn't exactly play with a top-class goalkeeper, but still the stats don't look well upon him.
His four seasons for us:
13/14: League position 2nd, Goals Conceded 60 (8th in league)
14/15: League position 11th, Goals Conceded 63 (Joint 10th/11th in league)
15/16: League position 5th, Goals Conceded 63 (Joint 9th/10th in the league)
16/17: League position 9th, Goals Conceded 69 (11th in the league)
 

Definitely agree with you on that. His performances in his first season were probably masked by the fact we finished 2nd. After that he was a bombscare.

I just meant that, in terms of budget, what Mccall was given to rebuild seems to be miles ahead of what Robinson gets. That's before we even get into the fact that we sell players for actual money these days rather than just letting everyone's contract expire which seemed to be our "business plan" under Dempster.

[well fan for life]

2 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Definitely agree with you on that. His performances in his first season were probably masked by the fact we finished 2nd. After that he was a bombscare.

I just meant that, in terms of budget, what Mccall was given to rebuild seems to be miles ahead of what Robinson gets. That's before we even get into the fact that we sell players for actual money these days rather than just letting everyone's contract expire which seemed to be our "business plan" under Dempster.

He was a great defender back in the day. But watching him getting retired on a Wednesday night at Ainslie Park was a pretty sad way for him to bow out of a playing career. 

[ropy]

17 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

He was a great defender back in the day. But watching him getting retired on a Wednesday night at Ainslie Park was a pretty sad way for him to bow out of a playing career. 

It was fitting that he stood for a minutes silence in memory of his career as their attacker ran past him to score.

[Swami]

Stephen McManus could not have given one single, solitary f**k about Motherwell the entire time he was with us. He was gasping to get back to Celtic, and I hope the door didn’t hit him on the arse on his way out when he got the offer. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I quite liked McManus, or at least the idea of him. From my recollections he had a very good debut season, followed by a few mediocre Scottish Premiership standard ones before his legs went completely. If he was signed with the sort of profile a Hartley/Gallagher etc came with then I imagine his stint would be looked on more favourably, but naturally people expect more than that from a former Celtic and Scotland captain.

[capt_oats]

14 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I quite liked McManus, or at least the idea of him. From my recollections he had a very good debut season, followed by a few mediocre Scottish Premiership standard ones before his legs went completely. If he was signed with the sort of profile a Hartley/Gallagher etc came with then I imagine his stint would be looked on more favourably, but naturally people expect more than that from a former Celtic and Scotland captain.

This seems like the fair appraisal.

However as @crazylegsjoe_mfc hints at if we're judging the defensive record with him in the side it's probably worth factoring in the collection of dross we had in goals across that period: Hollis, Nielsen, Twardzik, Samson.

Ripley was probably the most competent of all the 'keepers he played with - that 5th placed season's GA column is probably skewed a bit by the Steven Hammell-playing-right-back inspired 6-0 at Tynecastle and the Soleros out, feet up 7-0 at Parkhead.

I mean it could clearly be better but those two results accounted for 13 of our -16 goal difference.

Edited December 2, 2020 by capt_oats

[Swello]

I struggle to be objective about McManus - the magnitude of the playoff win will never diminish and he was one of these experienced players (like McDonald and Pearson) that set the tone and who didn't instantly shite themselves at the sight of Ibrox and that allows me to forgive a lot of sins (was it him that made the mistake that allowed Rangers to score that late sickener in the McGhee cup tie at Ibrox?). 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I guess you'll probably have a different outcome if you judge him as a Motherwell centre-half, than you would a former Scotland captain with 3 titles and Champion's League experience. I think I was just excited about the prospect of us having the latter on our books for once. It's the whole expectation/reality thing at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, we've had far worse than McManus and plenty of them too, but, for example, I imagine when they retire on paper Stephen McManus' career on paper will look far better on paper than Tom Aldred's, but I know which one I preferred for Motherwell.

 

[RossBFaeDundee]

Congrats on gaining 6 Pts in one day, jesus christ

https://spfl.co.uk/news/kilmarnock-fc-and-st-mirren-fc-disciplinary-outc

[Phillips455]