Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome_Devil]

16 minutes ago, ropy said:

He must have learned something in that first half.

Looking at Hibs next Sunday has 'chance' stamped all over it for us, especially if they're in the middle of a tough European round.

I'd be quietly confident with the defence of last season but there's every chance a complete gift from us will hand them their confidence back.

[camer0n_mcd]

That's Hibs equalised

[ropy]

Fairly sure we were looking to sign Adam Le Fronde (just scored for Hibs) around 2011 but he signed for Reading.  Might have been on-line chat only.  I saw him that season in a game against Derby County where Robbie Savage danced with Ola as the half time entertainment.  ALF scored twice and Theo Robinson replied in a 2-2 draw.

They serve beer at these games.

Edited August 6, 2023 by ropy

[camer0n_mcd]

7 minutes ago, camer0n_mcd said:

That's Hibs equalised

They've Hibs'd it again 

['WellDel]

12 minutes ago, camer0n_mcd said:

They've Hibs'd it again 

Very glad they did. Thanks Motherwell B.

[rowsdower]

7 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Good thread from D here.

That's what I need to understand from these complaints, what isn't working? What are the expectations of what we can feasibly do? A new owner doesn't stop us from conceding a header from a midget at Dens Park. There are clubs with way more resources than us that screw up more than we do.

It's OK to be critical of decisions and direction, but to decide that the fan ownership model is the cause of our problems is short sighted. I'm sure it's down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what fan ownership is, but the idea that we can just simply bring in outside investment (like it isn't something we're already trying) to save the day is laughable.

[Stevie Kirk]

4 hours ago, Antiochas III said:

Tbf, McGinley doing that was one of the best defensive plays of the game.  

He got a round of applause from the well support for it to be fair 

[steelmen]

1 hour ago, rowsdower said:

That's what I need to understand from these complaints, what isn't working? What are the expectations of what we can feasibly do? A new owner doesn't stop us from conceding a header from a midget at Dens Park. There are clubs with way more resources than us that screw up more than we do.

It's OK to be critical of decisions and direction, but to decide that the fan ownership model is the cause of our problems is short sighted. I'm sure it's down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what fan ownership is, but the idea that we can just simply bring in outside investment (like it isn't something we're already trying) to save the day is laughable.

A proper owner would have appointed a proper CEO and media team lead by now…. Is what they are thinking.

 

I don’t have an issue with fan ownership but I do think there is something missing with the board. Feels like flow was holding everything together and we aren’t going to get a direct replacement for him.

['WellDel]

7 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

I think there is, perhaps a bit of a misunderstanding at the heart of it. Of course we're looking for external investment, it isn't an either/or scenario.

 

2 hours ago, rowsdower said:

That's what I need to understand from these complaints, what isn't working? What are the expectations of what we can feasibly do? A new owner doesn't stop us from conceding a header from a midget at Dens Park. There are clubs with way more resources than us that screw up more than we do.

It's OK to be critical of decisions and direction, but to decide that the fan ownership model is the cause of our problems is short sighted. I'm sure it's down to a fundamental misunderstanding of what fan ownership is, but the idea that we can just simply bring in outside investment (like it isn't something we're already trying) to save the day is laughable.

A lack of understanding (allied with a fair degree of moonhowling) is certainly at the heart of the issue.

People need to differentiate between on-field success, and being successfully run. Clearer communication would help in many instances with regard to the running of the club (see the ongoing CEO replacement saga as an example) but the odd peer club picking up silverware here and there aside, of all teams of similar size and means I'd like to think we do pretty well on the whole. A huge chunk of our support has known nothing other than top flight football (almost 40 years) along with fairly regular jaunts to Hampden and European adventures. Outwith our lack of silverware, not one of our peer clubs can touch our longevity and league placings. 

Outside investment is becoming harder and harder to come by in Scotland, and looking at the recent 'successes' of the likes of Ogren and Nelms at the Dundee clubs will hardly inspire many to join them. Bearing in mind also where Boyle and his ego took us not so very long ago. Very much a case of being careful what you wish for.

Hamstrung as we are by finances and relying on people doing a hellua lot on a voluntary basis, I'm prepared to cut a lot of slack and offer these folks a lot of kudos. Barring some super fan dropping us a few million with no questions asked and no interference in operations, fan ownership is the only option and future of the club, we just need to find ways of constantly evolving and maximising people buying into and investing in it.

[Busta Nut]

Is there no bored Arab billionaires wanting a Lanarkshire play toy?

[Phillips455]

Tickets for the St Mirren League cup game are now on sale.

£18 for adults, £10 for concessions and £6 for under 12s

 

[Allroy for Prez]

Any word on exactly how long Butcher is out for? 

[capt_oats]

14 hours ago, Busta Nut said:

Is there no bored Arab billionaires wanting a Lanarkshire play toy?

No #sportswashing at Fir Park please.

Anyway, much like Derek and others I disagree with the guy's Tweet.

Since we became fully fan owned in Oct 2016 our league finishes have been 9th, 7th, 8th, 3rd*, 8th, 5th and 7th. There have been two European qualifications (brief as one of them was). We've seen two record turnovers and twice seen record profit and we have a net profit of £4m in that time. There's been a club record sale, ST sales have increased to "record" numbers. Our cash at hand in the most recent published accounts was £4m+.

There's absolutely nothing there that suggests to me that the business model isn't working.

Which isn't to say that it can't be improved or doesn't have faults but it feels weird, inexplicable even, that anyone would look at the state we were in under Boyle or the consistent losses we were making in the Dempster era vs our recent history and conclude that the way we're being run as a fan owned club is a problem.

The current model isn't perfect nor is the make up of The WS and both need to evolve but again, looking at where we are vs say, the Dundee clubs and their American owners shovelling cash into their respective money pits it's odd to think anyone's looking at that and deciding it's a set up that's preferable or what we should be aspiring to.

Having said that, to Devil's Advocate, there's probably a section of our support who not only find it difficult to differentiate between what's happening on the park vs how we're being run off it but they also have a problem when it comes to differentiating between what's someone is saying vs what someone means. Especially if that someone happens to be as verbose as Stuart Kettlewell.

The messaging from SK over the summer has been very much about "one out, one in" and associated chat about budget being maxed out etc. Robinson was someone who used to lean heavily on the whole "we can't afford to pay big salaries", "we have the lowest budget in the league" patter as well.

Most people can probably read between the lines in terms of what's actually being said however I guess if you're the sort of person who is inclined to take that stuff literally (or believe it in the first place) then it's not a huge leap to take if you interpret that as us being skint and have no money because we're fan owned and don't have a sugar daddy ploughing in cash.

If that's the narrative that's coming from the public face of the club then you can probably see why some amongst the support are taking it at face value. Even more so now that there's a void left by Flow in terms of actually managing that stuff - it's often been said on here that one of Burrows' biggest achievements in his role was consistently being about to project the idea that we're a bigger operation than we actually are.

Also, there seems to be a Modern Fitba' culture where the expectation from a demographic of fans is that clubs/owners should be be chucking money at players because that's (apparently) what you're supposed to do. Ironically, there were audible gasps and pearls were clutched when Kieran Maguire's breakdown of the accounts highlighted that we'd spent £500k on players.

"wHy dOnt tHe bOaRD sPeNd mOneY oN pLaYeRs?!?!?!?!"....."wait! no! not those players!"

All said and done though, the idea that we're just casually knocking back takeover bids from wealthy consortiums who will pony up as much cash as these fans want, will be guaranteed to make 100% correct decisions, are ethically sound and won't get involved in operational stuff is a giggle.

Edited August 7, 2023 by capt_oats

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Any word on exactly how long Butcher is out for? 

I think the official line was he would miss start of the season and be sidelined for several weeks thereafter. So quite vague tbh. I suspect as he is the wrong side of 30 he will take a little longer to heal from the operation he underwent. 

I was hoping he would be back for sometime in September. He may well be and I dearly hope so.  I suspect however it is more likely to be October or even November as he will need to build up fitness to levels required to start league games. 

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Also, there seems to be a Modern Fitba' culture where the expectation from a demographic of fans is that clubs/owners should be be chucking money at players because that's (apparently) what you're supposed to do. Ironically, there were audible gasps and pearls were clutched when Kieran Maguire's breakdown of the accounts highlighted that we'd spent £500k on players.

"wHy dOnt tHe bOaRD sPeNd mOneY oN pLaYeRs?!?!?!?!"....."wait! no! not those players!"

This is, imo, very related to your original point. I do understand the frustration that we've taken in actual millions, and seem to be scrabbling around for waifs and strays. That we, understandably (to me at least), make absolutely no fuss around when we do pay a fee probably has a counter effect to the folk that see us sell KVV, think we should've got a million for him, and immediately assume that goes straight to how much money we have to spend.

It is a proper high wire balancing act. The whole principle of the society was that we'd have a reserve of cash should the worst happen, if that it's sitting at £4 mil it feels like that's probably enough for whatever happens? 

I know the gripe in Perth was for ages that they were sitting on a wedge while doing f**k all. It now feels like we're kind of in a position where we could loosen the purse strings a little with any more cash that comes in, if that's the reserve?

That said, what do I know, I'm not the one that has to answer to the 4000 folk that turn up when it goes right or wrong, and obviously being a shambles for 18 months has probably set our piggy bank back a bit.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Does Craggs read The Thread?

 

Edited August 7, 2023 by YassinMoutaouakil

[Desp]

25 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I know the gripe in Perth was for ages that they were sitting on a wedge while doing f**k all. It now feels like we're kind of in a position where we could loosen the purse strings a little with any more cash that comes in, if that's the reserve?

That said, what do I know, I'm not the one that has to answer to the 4000 folk that turn up when it goes right or wrong, and obviously being a shambles for 18 months has probably set our piggy bank back a bit.

I mean, there's a definite argument that we have loosened the purse strings lately.  Alexander shelling out the best part of £500k on the likes of Kelly, Slattery & Sol (plus others, I'm sure) and who can forget the January trolley dash this year.  That kinda shit will need to be paid back, we can't just go out and spend money because we got a few quid over the summer.  We're also not long after punting and paying off two managers.

The Capt, as always, nailed it in his post.  There is absolutely questions over decisions made by the Board, and even who is on the Board (same questions for the WS and it's Board), and they absolutely should be questioned and made to answer, but the idea that fan ownership isn't working is a lot of nonsense spouted by the usual brain donors on Twitter.  The evidence literally debunks all of their shite claims.

[Allroy for Prez]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

I think the official line was he would miss start of the season and be sidelined for several weeks thereafter. So quite vague tbh. I suspect as he is the wrong side of 30 he will take a little longer to heal from the operation he underwent. 

I was hoping he would be back for sometime in September. He may well be and I dearly hope so.  I suspect however it is more likely to be October or even November as he will need to build up fitness to levels required to start league games. 

I’m sure we all really hope he isn’t out as long as that. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by Allroy for Prez

[eliphas]

One thing I found interesting recently was in Alan Burrows recent interview in the papers. Basically saying how the size of Aberdeen took him by surprise vs Motherwell and that the Well board effectively just let him get on with the running of the show by in large.

Given some of the decisions made the last couple of years especially,  essentially since Robinson left,  I hope the board realise the need for more senior bodies around and stricter governance over big decisions. We've spent an awful lor of cash on the pitch, managers and players which on reflection has not perhaps been the best use/return/overspend. Hindsight great and all that but I hope the tightening of the purse strings is more a strategic decision than response to a situation if you know what I mean.

Edited August 7, 2023 by eliphas

[Antiochas III]

2 hours ago, eliphas said:

One thing I found interesting recently was in Alan Burrows recent interview in the papers. Basically saying how the size of Aberdeen took him by surprise vs Motherwell and that the Well board effectively just let him get on with the running of the show by in large.

Given some of the decisions made the last couple of years especially,  essentially since Robinson left,  I hope the board realise the need for more senior bodies around and stricter governance over big decisions. We've spent an awful lor of cash on the pitch, managers and players which on reflection has not perhaps been the best use/return/overspend. Hindsight great and all that but I hope the tightening of the purse strings is more a strategic decision than response to a situation if you know what I mean.

Funny thing about size... our football operation by number of staff was much larger than Aberdeen's according to the last published accounts.