Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

9 minutes ago, Neil86 said:

I am sure I've said similar in the past, for all the apparent interest in him, the only two acceptable offers we received were Celtic and Norwich, from memory. 

If you asked me then who I'd have chosen, Celtic is an absolute no brainer, going for 10, European football, staying close to your family v Norwich reserves which is where I am sure he was told he would start.

I think Turnbull was unfortunate as well with the timing, the success of Scots in Italy came maybe 6 months later, Hickey, Doig, Ferguson.

Now more often or not, when a young Scottish player comes through there seem's to be genuine interest from the continent off the back of the success of the one's mentioned above, Max getting his move to Austria, albeit slightly different as he was OOC, but 3-4 years ago I doubt that's a move that would have happened.

Exactly this.

Like, would Turnbull still have stuck with going to Celtic? Maybe. Does his style suit a more continental league? Sure.

But as @Desp says a lot of the discourse around this is the same as saying "Why didn't we sell Randolph for £1m?". Because it was never an option that was on the table and if anyone thinks that the club weren't going to be packing his bags for him when the £3.5m deal landed and we'd have happily have held off for him to wait for offers from Serie A then I don't know what to tell you.

A lot of the comparisons with the likes of Hickey, Doig and Ferguson feel like folk being wise after the fact in terms of having opinions of what he should/shouldn't have done.

At the point when he initially agreed to sign for Celtic (2019) Hickey was still at Hearts, Doig was still at Hibs and Ferguson was still at Aberdeen. In fact Bologna took their punt on Hickey at the same time as Turnbull finalised his move to Celtic after his (knee) - 2020.

Doig and Ferguson didn't move to Italy until 2022. 2 years after Turnbull signed for Celtic.

I've mentioned this before but Turnbull was 21 when he finally moved (19 when the original deal was agreed). Lewis Ferguson was 23 when he signed for Bologna. In terms of development Turnbull's time at Celtic was the equivalent of Ferguson's stint at Aberdeen.

[Handsome_Devil]

3 hours ago, witchfindergeneral said:

What do you mean by this? I was under the impression him and Laura left us for West Ham but sounds like there was more to it?

Perhaps I overdid it but whispers suggested both parties had the feeling it was time for change... maybe false rumours ofc.

[thisGRAEME]

1 minute ago, welldaft said:

I have said this countless times. Unless there is a wealthy Motherwell fan out there. Even then if I could subsidise MFC to the tune of £500k - £1m PA I would not want to be a minority shareholder. 

It is either we get outside investment or we stick with a revitalised Well Society that can consistently ramp up donations by at least another £250k+ PA. Quite probably even more than that if we are to maintain the status quo. Doing so for years 1 and 2 and then seeing contributions fall back (as is likely) will lead us to the position we are in right now. 

I still think that would be my preferred option if the outside investment proposal looks weak and lacks any sort of longevity. 

Still hoping the City Football Group fancy a club in Scotland. Sadly highly unlikely. 

 

Or, another way, an extra 500 on the gate weekly would take us here too.

[Desp]

13 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Perhaps I overdid it but whispers suggested both parties had the feeling it was time for change... maybe false rumours ofc.

I wonder if their overtime claim remains outstanding...

[Handsome_Devil]

9 minutes ago, welldaft said:

It is either we get outside investment or we stick with a revitalised Well Society that can consistently ramp up donations by at least another £250k+ PA. Quite probably even more than that if we are to maintain the status quo. Doing so for years 1 and 2 and then seeing contributions fall back (as is likely) will lead us to the position we are in right now. 

Plenty of folk won't have adjusted their direct debits since starting X years ago...combine that with revamped Society and awareness of the situation and a few hundred k a year isn't impossible. You then relying us doing what we've always done but with a bit less margin for error.

You're right that what comes next is the key question...and even allowing for people not knowing the details of business plans, I don't think I've seen one back of an envelope wild guess of how our situation will be better if we're also paying an investor X hundred k a year.

And if any investor instead isn't interested in cash but a capital gain, I would argue that will mainly come from circumstances outwith our control...which again makes me ask why it's worth selling in the first place.

By all means advertise for investment, we may well win the lottery in that regard and find someone who'd take a minority but apart from that and galvanising the Society, it does not seem a viable option at all.

[Handsome_Devil]

9 minutes ago, welldaft said:

It is either we get outside investment or we stick with a revitalised Well Society that can consistently ramp up donations by at least another £250k+ PA. Quite probably even more than that if we are to maintain the status quo. Doing so for years 1 and 2 and then seeing contributions fall back (as is likely) will lead us to the position we are in right now. 

Plenty of folk won't have adjusted their direct debits since starting X years ago...combine that with revamped Society and awareness of the situation and a few hundred k a year isn't impossible. You then relying us doing what we've always done but with a bit less margin for error.

You're right that what comes next is the key question...and even allowing for people not knowing the details of business plans, I don't think I've seen one back of an envelope wild guess of how our situation will be better if we're also paying an investor X hundred k a year.

And if any investor instead isn't interested in cash but a capital gain, I would argue that will mainly come from circumstances outwith our control...which again makes me ask why it's worth selling in the first place.

By all means advertise for investment, we may well win the lottery in that regard and find someone who'd take a minority but apart from that and galvanising the Society, it does not seem a viable option at all.

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, Desp said:

I wonder if their overtime claim remains outstanding...

You may well think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

[RandomGuy.]

27 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Exactly this.

Like, would Turnbull still have stuck with going to Celtic? Maybe. Does his style suit a more continental league? Sure.

But as @Desp says a lot of the discourse around this is the same as saying "Why didn't we sell Randolph for £1m?". Because it was never an option that was on the table and if anyone thinks that the club weren't going to be packing his bags for him when the £3.5m deal landed and we'd have happily have held off for him to wait for offers from Serie A then I don't know what to tell you.

A lot of the comparisons with the likes of Hickey, Doig and Ferguson feel like folk being wise after the fact in terms of having opinions of what he should/shouldn't have done.

At the point when he initially agreed to sign for Celtic (2019) Hickey was still at Hearts, Doig was still at Hibs and Ferguson was still at Aberdeen. In fact Bologna took their punt on Hickey at the same time as Turnbull finalised his move to Celtic after his (knee) - 2020.

Doig and Ferguson didn't move to Italy until 2022. 2 years after Turnbull signed for Celtic.

I've mentioned this before but Turnbull was 21 when he finally moved (19 when the original deal was agreed). Lewis Ferguson was 23 when he signed for Bologna. In terms of development Turnbull's time at Celtic was the equivalent of Ferguson's stint at Aberdeen.

I still think some of your fans just ignore Turnbull had a potentially career ending injury at 19 aswell, and the mental impact of being on top of the world then having to spend the best part of a year on the sidelines would've caused.

Of course a young guy, whos seen how easily a footballers career can just hit a brick wall, is going to jump at the chance to win trophies and medals as quickly as possible. Imagine he turns that down, joins a mid-table outfit as a "step" and then his knee breaks down again and thats him done.

[Swello]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I still think some of your fans just ignore Turnbull had a potentially career ending injury at 19 aswell, and the mental impact of being on top of the world then having to spend the best part of a year on the sidelines would've caused.

We had a lavish 1 hour documentary to remind us.

[StAndrew7]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Of course a young guy, whos seen how easily a footballers career can just hit a brick wall, is going to jump at the chance to win trophies and medals as quickly as possible. Imagine he turns that down, joins a mid-table outfit as a "step" and then his knee breaks down again and thats him done.

Exactly this.

£10k a week or whatever for 4 years will have set him up for a significant period and support his family as well. Sensible option all round when you take his knee/injuries into account, too.

[StAndrew7]

42 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Don't worry, I'm already very committed to this, I'm going to look mental when I whip the hair off.

Get some ink on yer arms and shite wristbands and you're sorted for life.

[wellboy1991]

2 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:

I mean, expecting him to walk into the starting XI or off the bench within a month of arriving at a new club, with little to no match-fitness is a bit harsh. Also, he's had what, two(?) bad knee injuries which might be catching up with him.

There's a distinct possibility we'll come to the reality that as Motherwell fans we got to see the absolute best of DT.

get that. However surely he is good enough for that Cardiff side. We all know the class the lad has. Even since his injuries. 

I might have rose tinted glasses however and don’t hide that fact. 

[StAndrew7]

5 minutes ago, wellboy1991 said:

get that. However surely he is good enough for that Cardiff side. We all know the class the lad has. Even since his injuries. 

I might have rose tinted glasses however and don’t hide that fact. 

Just checked; he's started twice and has come off the bench four times since the 3rd of February, so he's been involved in every game he's been available to them.

Edited February 27 by StAndrew7

[capt_oats]

Mentioned this earlier but this is a really good discussion between Derek and @CraigFowler and tbqh it's the sort of thing that a lot of folk in the wider support could do with listening to before making up their mind one way or another on their vote.

One point though, it's possible that Dee misspoke around 11min 50 in saying that the accounts will be out very soon and talking about a profit this year which very much isn't the case as has been covered in some of the news articles on FPC and discussed on SO.

However, it may have been the case that he meant a profit for this season ie: 23/24? @StAndrew7 was there any sort of projection for next year mentioned at the AGM?

[StAndrew7]

My understanding is that the end of this financial year will have the club sitting with a £500k cash balance (and the Society sitting around £750k); that doesn't necessarily equate to us making a profit this year but we're on course to be "in the green" as it were.

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, StAndrew7 said:

My understanding is that the end of this financial year will have the club sitting with a £500k cash balance (and the Society sitting around £750k); that doesn't necessarily equate to us making a profit this year but we're on course to be "in the green" as it were.

Cheers. I remembered Weir talking about a break even cash balance or something along those lines but I'd absolutely zoned out by that point tbh.

[Vietnam91]

The accounts run June to May, so this next published will show a 500k revenue for KVV and league place (to be determined).

As for the compo money owed for Dean and Max, Weir said not a penny had been received. It’ll roll into next seasons accounts as an owed debt I’m reliably informed.

We have to justify and assure an ability to trade for 18 months from October.

On paper anyway we’ve got a lot of variables to be determined but this season could very end up breakeven. Next years accounts may start from an equally healthy place towards attaining the 750k before a ball is kicked, before any bank accounts are tapped.

[Handsome_Devil]

8 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

The accounts run June to May, so this next published will show a 500k revenue for KVV and league place (to be determined).

As for the compo money owed for Dean and Max, Weir said not a penny had been received. It’ll roll into next seasons accounts as an owed debt I’m reliably informed.

We have to justify and assure an ability to trade for 18 months from October.

On paper anyway we’ve got a lot of variables to be determined but this season could very end up breakeven. Next years accounts may start from an equally healthy place towards attaining the 750k before a ball is kicked, before any bank accounts are tapped.

You would also assume our wage bill will be substantially lower and free from compensation payments (for now!). And while the cups were disappointing, we did progress beyond the first round exits we supposedly budget for. So aye, while too early to count chickens by any means, a modest operating profit would certainly seem possible.

[Vietnam91]

1 minute ago, Handsome_Devil said:

You would also assume our wage bill will be substantially lower and free from compensation payments (for now!). And while the cups were disappointing, we did progress beyond the first round exits we supposedly budget for. So aye, while too early to count chickens by any means, a modest operating profit would certainly seem possible.

4 less gaffers and assistants too so that helps.

We’ll probably realise something modest for Sol even though it felt like a mutual.

[capt_oats]

2 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

4 less gaffers and assistants too so that helps.

We’ll probably realise something modest for Sol even though it felt like a mutual.

The fee for Sol is in the 22/23 accounts that were recently published.