Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Antiochas III]

Also anyone who is confused about how we're still in with a shot of being top 6 come the split, go and look at the losses of the teams in our league, specifically 5th, 6th, 7th...  and then look at ours...

[Swello]

9 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I only read the thread after the game last night, some of the overreaction was hilarious at half time.

At the game, it felt like we were the better team in the first half once we got over our normal slump when we concede our shite goal of the day - but it took the change at half time to give Livingston some real problems as they looked comfortable enough with the ball in front of them before that (and to be fair, we came out firing from the first minute of the 2nd half).

 

[2426255]

17 minutes ago, Antiochas III said:

If they went by actual results and not status of results, no one would have wanted Kettlewell sacked tbh...  

It's always a toys out the pram scenario if results aren't what fans want, it's so poor. I get the emotions involved, but for fucks sake it's plain as day that Kettlewell is a decent manager. He's done well when conditions are good and he's kept you fighting when things are going against you.

He's not perfect, but he's not a problem and so replacing him wouldn't fix any issues apart from appeasing a bloodthirsty fan base. 

[MurrayWell]

Wild that we are the league leaders for most points from losing positions this season, and those work out at about half of our overall total at the moment. I know the character of the team has been called into question at times this season, but there has to be something there if they just refuse to give up. 

If we can cut out the daft mistakes at the back (perhaps even just cut the number down if we're being more realistic) there's no reason we can't have a positive end to the campaign. 

[Dosser1886]

Love this stuff, we get one good result against the bottom team in the league and one set of fans has always known that everying will be ok and the manager is a good guy who will turn it round while everyone else has been over reacting over the horrendous non win record that we have and the man in charge being unable to do anything about the same defensive mistakes being made game after game.

[casinobay]

Ketts also swapping the positions of Davor and Miller mid way through the first half was a good move.

I like Davor, but he has no cutting edge going forward. Miller sitting in front of the defence spraying positive passes gave us the momentum.

[Antiochas III]

4 minutes ago, Dosser1886 said:

Love this stuff, we get one good result against the bottom team in the league and one set of fans has always known that everying will be ok and the manager is a good guy who will turn it round while everyone else has been over reacting over the horrendous non win record that we have and the man in charge being unable to do anything about the same defensive mistakes being made game after game.

Maybe some of us realise the game isn't a win/loss ratio ranking - it's not a US Sport.  

Edited February 29 by Antiochas III

[casinobay]

Kelly coming out to catch the ball from the corner was a thing of beauty, and possibly the most unexpected moment of the season.

Right, so you can do that!

[Ron Aldo]

12 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Kettlewell is utterly clueless yet folk will still defend him for some unknown reason. 

He should have gone after County pumped us 3-0 but, unbeknownst to everyone, he instead had another year sitting on his contract. 

Devine on his wrong side and SOD who is beyond slow out wide yet Kettlewell is screaming at the players to get it out there. WHIT?! Add to that, Gent and Vale who have been 2 of our better players in recent weeks are benched. 

Oh and the defence that keeps making the same mistakes week after week make a c**t of it again. I'm sure Kettlewell will comment on it post match but we'll likely be watching the same shitshow against Rangers on Saturday. It's not as if he works with these players day in day out and can coach them or anything like that. 

TL;DR - I'm a bit pissed off. 

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

January is an odd one. He did much better, for sure, but then he generally signed more established folk. Devine was young obviously but you know what we'd get from Halliday and Nicholson, Vale has his Championship games behind him, we'd seen Montgomery etc. That's great but not necessarily the market we'll be in again in summer... he urgently needs to improve his success rate among 'punts'.

As for the defence, it is a remarkable quirk that we've got so many (converted) CBs that SK hasn't signed one for us yet. The rumour we've gone for that Livingston boy does not install confidence.

I dunno like, better? As much as there's been a lot of criticism of the transfers, with a couple of sore thumb exceptions, I'd say it's been pretty good?

From the summer, Obika and Williamson have been busts. Souare was clearly only ever a short term signing. Shaw was a last resort because we needed a body when everyone got injured. Biereth, Spencer, Gent and Davor I think we can all say have been good? So 50/50 at worst here?

Devine, Nicholson, Halliday and Vale have all been positives? Montgomery I guess you could go either way on. [REDACTED] is very much out of our control and immediately gone. Elliott we're obviously taking an extended trial on, but we'll see? Montgomery showed out but then immediately fell to bits.

The sheer amount of business we've had to do I'd assume makes the job itself a lot harder, in that you're not committing the time to find the two bodies that improve us but the 6 that we need to function.

The summer sees (presuming they don't have secret extensions) O'Donnell, McGinn, Butcher, Kelly, Mugabi, Gent, Devine, Elliott, Oxborough and Montgomery all departing, leaving us with Blaney and Casey as the sole members of our defence under contract. You could argue one way or another on basically all of them, but this will be the biggest concern of the summer for me, because we have been a disaster defensively throughout the season. That's the real test, IMO.

[2426255]

 

4 minutes ago, Antiochas III said:

Maybe some of us realise the game isn't a win/loss ratio ranking - it's not a US Sports.  

The stuff about the no win record was ridiculous as usual. A stat portraying Motherwell in it's worst possible light. Wasn't it 6 draws and 9 defeats sandwiched between two wins. 

So it could be read as 2 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats in 17 games or alternatively in it's worst possible light: no win in 15 games. Horrible.

 

[Antiochas III]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

 

The stuff about the no win record was ridiculous as usual. A stat portraying Motherwell in it's worst possible light. Wasn't it 6 draws and 9 defeats sandwiched between two wins. 

So it could be read as 2 wins, 6 draws and 9 defeats in 17 games or alternatively in it's worst possible light: no win in 15 games. Horrible.

 

We have already drawn more games this season than any season since 2009/10.   We are on course to lose a similar amount as we normally would (if current form continues)...  

Edited February 29 by Antiochas III

[2426255]

Motherwell have one or two issues off the field. Things that disadvantage them in achieving a top-6 finish basically in any given season even compared to Kilmarnock or St Mirren let alone Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen.

I just don't understand what your fanbase are expecting. This hasn't been a stellar season, but you're still doing okay and probably performing to something close to expected with all the shit behind the scenes. The risk of relegation is relatively low thanks to Livingston, so you've won a watch in that sense and it'll give you the time to build towards a better season next year.     

[Swello]

28 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Wild that we are the league leaders for most points from losing positions this season, and those work out at about half of our overall total at the moment.

One thing that was going through my mind last night was that we've spent an inordinate amount of time watching them in a losing position this season - and that in itself explains a lot of how negative this season has felt overall. 

[thisGRAEME]

2 minutes ago, Swello said:

One thing that was going through my mind last night was that we've spent an inordinate amount of time watching them in a losing position this season - and that in itself explains a lot of how negative this season has felt overall. 

Does that make it 14 points or something we've taken from losing positions now?

Silly.

[Handsome_Devil]

16 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I dunno like, better? As much as there's been a lot of criticism of the transfers, with a couple of sore thumb exceptions, I'd say it's been pretty good?

From the summer, Obika and Williamson have been busts. Souare was clearly only ever a short term signing. Shaw was a last resort because we needed a body when everyone got injured. Biereth, Spencer, Gent and Davor I think we can all say have been good? So 50/50 at worst here?

It's certainly looking better than it was...but I'd say that signing two guys always injured was a stupid waste of resources and while it's great to see projects work out, if you say Davor, Bair and Gent only got going from mid-December, our being dismal without them early is what got us stuck firmly in a relegation battle.

I'm hopeful he'll do better for sure and certainly when you see guys develop there's more reason to think he will...but essentially, if we're in a relegation battle come November and five more folk have contributed f**k all to that point, I think he'll be in bother.

 

[Dosser1886]

34 minutes ago, Antiochas III said:

Maybe some of us realise the game isn't a win/loss ratio ranking - it's not a US Sport.  

Maybe some of us expect watching football to be enjoyable/entertaining, and not expect the same issues to be seen all season and not resolved.

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Poor goal to lose (Casey again) in the first half, but as much as we weren't amazing, I didn't think we were ever far out it.

Casey was shit there but it is notable that Miller's needless giveaway has barely been acknowledged...that one wasn't a one-man show by any means.

Also interesting that Kettlewell, unprompted, sung his praises individually again post-match. You wonder if the decision has been made that summer is the best time to cash in risk/reward wise. He's fresh, playing well, two years on his contract...he might be even better next season but if he hits a slump (not unexpected in the development of a youth ofc) before sales time and has only one year left, his value could be less...

Edited February 29 by Handsome_Devil

[StAndrew7]

1 hour ago, Dosser1886 said:

Love this stuff, we get one good result against the bottom team in the league and one set of fans has always known that everything will be OK and the manager is a good guy who will turn it round while everyone else has been over reacting over the horrendous non win record that we have and the man in charge being unable to do anything about the same defensive mistakes being made game after game.

And if we hadn't gotten a result at the bottom team in the league you'd have absolutely lost your shit, right?

Other than adapting training and asking his players to take that on board on the pitch, there's only so much the manager can do, it's down to the players to carry all that out. A good chunk of the blame for the poor run lies at the feet of the players (individual mistakes, poor decision making, throwing the ball in etc. The manager can't control those).

He has made the changes I've mentioned above and we're beginning to see the results of that. As a team, we're absolutely never going to have games where players don't make mistakes that could potentially be costly. The issue we have had this season is that they always seem to have been costly (i.e. Kelly maybe hasn't bailed us out with a good save, or a last ditch tackle that worked last season hasn't this). After the first goal last night, the defence barely put a foot wrong, particularly in the second half (I didn't see the first as I was making my own footballing howlers at 7s).

I struggle to understand why people are being so critical of him when he's clearly been working with the team to try and fix these errors/mistakes. I accept that he is due some criticism for his game management and other decisions he's made and yes, it is infuriating to see the same mistakes from the team week in week out, but you can absolutely see he's learning from those mistakes as well; last night is the perfect example of that. The starting XI wasn't working so he changed it and we scored 3 goals and dominated.

These things don't always happen overnight, look at Bair. Look at Davor. Look at Gent. Yes the more "senior" pros haven't helped at times (frankly, Butcher shouldn't be in the squad ever again) and neither have injuries. What is it, 12 injuries this season that have lasted at least a month or longer? That's wild.

The squad have never, ever looked like they didn't believe in him or given up like they did under Hammell and Alexander. That shows you that he's a good leader and manager.

Also, he's 39. This is his second job as a manager. He's going to make mistakes and anyone who thinks otherwise (or that we'd be able to attract the kind of manager who isn't going to) isn't being realistic. But he's clearly learning from them and developing as a manager, as you'd hope he would.

1 hour ago, casinobay said:

Ketts also swapping the positions of Davor and Miller mid way through the first half was a good move.

I like Davor, but he has no cutting edge going forward. Miller sitting in front of the defence spraying positive passes gave us the momentum.

I think you're right; I do like Davor as a sitting ball winner, but he needs someone around him/in front of him to play forward passes like you said. He's not a proper pivot (yet), but he's absolutely the right kind of combative midfielder we need sitting behind Miller. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kettlewell and the coaching staff bring that into his game and help him develop into a more complete number 6 type.

Edited February 29 by StAndrew7

[Handsome_Devil]

3 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Also, he's 39. This is his second job as a manager. He's going to make mistakes and anyone who thinks otherwise (or that we'd be able to attract the kind of manager who isn't going to) isn't being realistic. But he's clearly learning from them and developing as a manager, as you'd hope he would.

This is one of the points that made me flip on him once we backed him...if we have a 17-year-old breaking into the team, literally everyone would expect him to be up and down, make mistakes, have poor spells etc but learn from them as part of the process. Is the manager fundamentally any different?

We've seen for a fact all around the league that changing manager all the time has little positive impact. If we're trying to be different and find an edge, why not try letting a manager learn and develop for three-five years? There's a potential big reward and little risk - with the caveat the players back him through rough spells, as they visibly did in this case.