Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[mizfit]

I’ll trust Davidson to pick out any defensive players so no issues there.

[RandomGuy.]

Expect plenty of flak for this, but not a huge fan of loans and a bit worried how reliant we've been on them under Davidson. Its fine when its working but eventually you find you lose the players who've been here 4/5 years and theres nobody bedded in at the club to replace them.

I think Gilmour and Brown are our only real signings under 27 in the past 12 months, if you exclude Rooney who was signed to a PCA in January 2020, and neither of them are first choice or shown anything in limited game time to suggest they will be this season.

No worries at all about Muller/Devine being good enough, Davidson has had a great eye so far and seems to improve every player he meets, I just don't like having 4/5 loans every season as I feel like it harms you unless you're able to sign 2/3 of them permanently at the end.

[glenrothes 1884 saint]

Is it a loan, his contract ended yesterday?

[steviemay17]

10 minutes ago, glenrothes 1884 saint said:

Is it a loan, his contract ended yesterday?

Seen a few MEN reports from the end of the season saying it wasn't clear what was going on with his contract, won't be surprised if they announce he's signed a new two-year deal before signing on loan for us, puts him in the shop window for a fee

[perthsaint1977]

Expect plenty of flak for this, but not a huge fan of loans and a bit worried how reliant we've been on them under Davidson. Its fine when its working but eventually you find you lose the players who've been here 4/5 years and theres nobody bedded in at the club to replace them.
I think Gilmour and Brown are our only real signings under 27 in the past 12 months, if you exclude Rooney who was signed to a PCA in January 2020, and neither of them are first choice or shown anything in limited game time to suggest they will be this season.
No worries at all about Muller/Devine being good enough, Davidson has had a great eye so far and seems to improve every player he meets, I just don't like having 4/5 loans every season as I feel like it harms you unless you're able to sign 2/3 of them permanently at the end.

I get what you are saying but a bulkier squad is required this season and the loan market is a pretty obvious part of that strategy even if they have some risks associated with them ie Danny McNamara being recalled early etc.
If the money saved is then used to tie up current players out of contract or solve the forward area of play by paying a little more then no issues.

[steviemay17]

8 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

I get what you are saying but a bulkier squad is required this season and the loan market is a pretty obvious part of that strategy even if they have some risks associated with them ie Danny McNamara being recalled early etc.
If the money saved is then used to tie up current players out of contract or solve the forward area of play by paying a little more then no issues.

It's an interesting cycle because if loan players keep coming here and developing and getting more chances then in theory we should be a plae that agents and clubs want to send their best young players too, so the quality may rise over time.

I get Random's point about being over reliant, but I do like it in these situations where they are young backups behind senior players, so they are replaceable. If we ever get into a situation where we have loanees becoming talismen or leaders then we are in trouble when they go, but adding 3/4 hungry young players to fill out a squad while we allow our young players to go out and get experience is logically sound to me

[RandomGuy.]

16 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

I get what you are saying but a bulkier squad is required this season and the loan market is a pretty obvious part of that strategy even if they have some risks associated with them ie Danny McNamara being recalled early etc.
If the money saved is then used to tie up current players out of contract or solve the forward area of play by paying a little more then no issues.

Yeah the defensive depth last season was non-existent, so great the club have resolved that early this Summer. Wouldn't be easy to get players to come in knowing they'll be back ups too, so young loanees make a lot of sense.

It just makes me nervous how few permanent signings we've made in the last 12 months who could be here long term, plus the idea we could lose McCart, Kerr, Rooney and McCann all in the next 12 months.

[perthsaint1977]

Yeah the defensive depth last season was non-existent, so great the club have resolved that early this Summer. Wouldn't be easy to get players to come in knowing they'll be back ups too, so young loanees make a lot of sense.
It just makes me nervous how few permanent signings we've made in the last 12 months who could be here long term, plus the idea we could lose McCart, Kerr, Rooney and McCann all in the next 12 months.

Think the whole covid issue has played a huge factor in that. We have always been careful but we seem to be very careful just now until we know the full situation in relation to crowds for the upcoming season.
I'm sure if and when the right player(s) is identified, they will be signed up on a 2/3 year deal.

[Saint Stevo]

I get what you are saying but a bulkier squad is required this season and the loan market is a pretty obvious part of that strategy even if they have some risks associated with them ie Danny McNamara being recalled early etc.
If the money saved is then used to tie up current players out of contract or solve the forward area of play by paying a little more then no issues.

Yeah I agree. Increasing squad size using loans is good if it means we can ring-fence funds for contracts / new permanent signings. We've 'potentially' got a number of extra games in Europe this season to navigate, so the bigger squad will help and I'm 100% positive Callum knows a good defender when he sees one. Plus the added cover and competition for places is always beneficial.

Forward areas next though please!

[Templar]

7 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

plus the idea we could lose McCart, Kerr, Rooney and McCann all in the next 12 months.

or 12 weeks

 

[Radford]

As always, the end of the window will be the time to judge, when all the signings are in. It doesn't matter in what order you do the jigsaw, as long as all the pieces fit. 

If we end up without Rooney, McCart, Kerr and McCann and with a squad full of more short-term fixes then it's potentially presenting a problem but, at the moment, there is no indication that will be the case.

[mizfit]

The club staff Have been back since Monday and we’ve signed up some promising youngsters, signed 3 defensive players and I presume are still negotiating contracts with players behind the scenes.

Fairly impressed so far, usually we’re 3 weeks in and just waiting for something to happen.

[RandomGuy.]

25 minutes ago, Radford said:

As always, the end of the window will be the time to judge, when all the signings are in. It doesn't matter in what order you do the jigsaw, as long as all the pieces fit. 

If we end up without Rooney, McCart, Kerr and McCann and with a squad full of more short-term fixes then it's potentially presenting a problem but, at the moment, there is no indication that will be the case.

Yeah I really need to stop and think before posting tbh, we quite clearly won't lose all 4 and replace them with kids on loan. Always the worst case scenario in my head

Squad looks decent now, and we actually look prepared for Europe for the first time ever. Devine played as a CB for Man U u23s a decent amount of times.

Ideally I could add a right wing option which would be just MOH, and you'd remove him from under May.

Depending on Ballantyne/Hendry, we're maybe just a Middleton type (Winger/Striker hybrid) away?

if Davidson isn't sure on Ballantyne/Hendry, or wants to loan Ballantyne out again, then a "10" and/or winger on top of that.

Can probably focus on quality and take a punt or two now.

Edited July 2, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[mizfit]

Apparently we’ve rejected a very low offer from Hibs for Jamie McCart.

[Radford]

10 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Yeah I really need to stop and think before posting tbh, we quite clearly won't lose all 4 and replace them with kids on loan.

I don't think your first reaction will be too different to a lot of fans. If you take today as the cut-off, our entire signing policy under the manager has been short-term but today is just an arbitrary cut-off and what matters is in the overall picture is the end of August. 

Young players with no experience on loan isn't great but, at the moment, you have to trust there will be more long-term signings made, although our inability to get deals done still lingers, giving the time it's been since we made that sort of signing. 

That's where I disagree with you, as I think we need more than just Middleton on loan. We need to start making more stable signings now. Guys at the right age, with the right experience and on decent deals.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

It's one of those things. Like under Wright once the the pre season goes on depending on certain outcomes more money may become available to the manager to make perm signings. 

If we get through a round in European qualifying that gives us more income than the worst case we've currently budgeted for or for if we start being allowed fans back in unrestricted numbers.

The club may also be waiting for the outcomes of the above to things before committing to more substantial contract offers to the current squad as well.

[Leith Green]

6 minutes ago, mizfit said:

Apparently we’ve rejected a very low offer from Hibs for Jamie McCart.

And for Kerr.

Both bids will increase.

[Kyle]

9 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

And for Kerr.

Both bids will increase.

Same article as the McCart offer says you're no longer interested in Kerr. I'd imagine the English clubs interested in him have pushed Hibs out of the race.

 

[RandomGuy.]

24 minutes ago, Radford said:

That's where I disagree with you, as I think we need more than just Middleton on loan. 

Sorry, didn't really make it clear, when I mentioned Middleton I didn't mean him on loan again exactly, just someone like him. A winger who can play centrally or up front, has pace/can win us matches etc.

Edited July 2, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[Leith Green]

4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Same article as the McCart offer says you're no longer interested in Kerr. I'd imagine the English clubs interested in him have pushed Hibs out of the race.

 

My info isn't from the newspapers