Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Old Pack]

Mc Millan looks decent.

[nelsjfc]

I've always said Cummins is a decent enough option as a 3rd or 4th strikers. He's never going to be a 15 goal a season striker but runs the channels well and is a nuisance in the air; I'd certainty prefer keeping him to the likes of Johnstone.

[RandomGuy.]

I've always said Cummins is a decent enough option as a 3rd or 4th strikers. He's never going to be a 15 goal a season striker but runs the channels well and is a nuisance in the air; I'd certainty prefer keeping him to the likes of Johnstone.

Johnstones never actually had a run in our team.

I like Cummins, I don't think there's much point in carrying a 30yo striker who's scored in three games over the past 15 months

[PauloPerth]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I thinks it's fairly safe to say that Cummins isnt getting a new contract.

 

I'm with Kyle here, i don't think that's a safe bet at all given Tommy's general loyalty in offering players renewed contracts, and retaining the squad as much as possible.

Cummins is a worker who always gives everything, a good squad option off the bench. Might suit him better if we have more options ahead of him to take the pressure off a bit when he does get on.

[Kyle]

So I think it's time to talk about the clean out that's coming over the next couple of windows. I suspect we're going to see another couple of signings  in addition to McMillan. To me, it's quite clear what we need - a commanding centre half to help us with cross balls and set plays (even better if he's a good communicator), a midfielder who walks and talks like Chris Millar (but who isn't Chris Millar as it seems quite clear that bridge is burned now) and a pacey winger. 

I suspect we'll have to find funds for that though, and some players may have to leave. Anyone signed up beyond the end of the season is unlikely to leave, so we're probably looking at players at guys who are either out of contract at the end of the season or potentially the loan deals.

Players out of contract in the summer/in January;

Alan Mannus

Mark Hurst

Keith Watson

Steven Anderson

Ally Gilchrist

Scott Tanser

Craig Thomson

Chris Millar

Murray Davidson

Paul Paton

Blair Alston

Michael O'Halloran

Steven Maclean

Graham Cummins

Denny Johnstone

Callum Hendry

Greg Hurst

I'll be honest - the only player from the above that I would offer a contract to right now is Murray Davidson. Not to say that others wont be worth offers in the second half of the season, but I'm struggling to make a convincing case for any of them on the basis of how they're playing so far this season. In terms of actually releasing players though, 6 candidates stand out to me on that list - Keith Watson, Ally Gilchrist, Craig Thomson, Chris Millar, Michael O'Halloran and Denny Johnstone.

We all know the situation with Millar. It's gotten to the point now where he isn't even getting on the bench, with Kyle McClean the most recent player to seemingly move ahead of him in the pecking order. I'd imagine that he's on a big wage - even allowing for an apparent pay cut in the summer - and the manager will be looking to get him off it in January I suspect. 

Gilchrist and Thomson aren't and will never be good enough for the top flight IMO. Gilchrist is yet to make his league debut and is 23 in a couple of months time. Thomson's big asset is his pace but I don't think he's really got anything else to back it up. If we release Gilchrist, chances are we'll bring Kerr back rather than sign a new centre half but I'd rather leave him out on loan and bring someone else in.

Watson will almost certainly be back from Hartlepool in January. He picked up a knee injury (shock) whilst playing down there and I doubt they'll want to be burned again by extending his loan. He's clearly a capable player but he'll never make it with us and him leaving in January would just bring forward what is inevitable in May anyway. Not sure him leaving will free up any wages as we would likely have to pay up his contract in full, but another one who can leave and wouldn't diminish us.

Johnstone just hasn't given us enough since joining in August. I think it speaks volumes that, even when we went 6 games without scoring, he couldn't force his way into the first 11 and was rarely seen off the bench. If there's a termination clause I think we'll use it.

Michael O'Halloran started well and we know how effective he can be for us in two spells but I'm not sure that he's given enough after an initial burst to merit up paying a fee to sign him. If we can extend him loan then I'd imagine that's the most attractive option for both us and MOH himself, but I wont be devastated if he's away back to Rangers on the 1st of January.

 

Bring on January. Not just because that's when the window's open - we're also getting a break from watching Saints!

[tree house tam]

Spot on Kyle. Only one worth a deal is Muzz. Get the rest to f**k and start again.

[Mr Heliums]

The plus side of O'Halloran's drop in form is that you'd imagine any asking price - and the number of rivals for his signature - will have dropped away. But he's someone I'd take on at the right price because he has undoubted quality. Davidson has that too.

The others I don't care about, though I'd love to see the back of Paton (it may be co-incidence but his arrival at the club coincided with a new low of shitfesting). I'm sure Macca will get a new contract - it's the sort of rash thing Tommy does with players as they approach their dotage. But he, Mannus and Millar must be three of the highest earners and we'd have a lot more flexibility with budgets if they were off the books.

[RandomGuy.]

Alan Mannus
Mark Hurst
Keith Watson
Steven Anderson
Ally Gilchrist
Scott Tanser
Craig Thomson
Chris Millar
Murray Davidson
Paul Paton
Blair Alston
Michael O'Halloran
Steven Maclean
Graham Cummins
Denny Johnstone
Callum Hendry
Greg Hurst

I'd be offering Anderson and Davidson deals until the end of next season, on the basis that'll be their last contract as regular players. Rest are a bit shit. MOH was a player we needed to step up last night and instead he just hid all match, was wondering if a six figure fee could buy him, we'd probably be better signing a couple of players with that money instead

[Kyle]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

 

I'd be offering Anderson and Davidson deals until the end of next season, on the basis that'll be their last contract as regular players. Rest are a bit shit. MOH was a player we needed to step up last night and instead he just hid all match, was wondering if a six figure fee could buy him, we'd probably be better signing a couple of players with that money instead

 

Davidson has been one of our best players this season and is probably still one of the better players in the squad. Agree about Anderson - we need to get the replacement lined up now as he's creaking.

[Kyle]

3 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

The plus side of O'Halloran's drop in form is that you'd imagine any asking price - and the number of rivals for his signature - will have dropped away. But he's someone I'd take on at the right price because he has undoubted quality. Davidson has that too.

The others I don't care about, though I'd love to see the back of Paton (it may be co-incidence but his arrival at the club coincided with a new low of shitfesting). I'm sure Macca will get a new contract - it's the sort of rash thing Tommy does with players as they approach their dotage. But he, Mannus and Millar must be three of the highest earners and we'd have a lot more flexibility with budgets if they were off the books.

Agree about Paton. Wasn't keen when we signed him and I've flirted with think he's alright a few times, but the reality is he makes us worse and is no where near the quality of Morris and Millar. He also doesn't compliment Davidson.

[RandomGuy.]

Davidson has been one of our best players this season and is probably still one of the better players in the squad. Agree about Anderson - we need to get the replacement lined up now as he's creaking.

Aye he has been, he turns 30 this season though, and you wonder how long it'll be until all the knocks he takes becomes a more serious issue. This time next year I'd hope we have someone in the squad capable of taking his role.

[The Saintee]

Pretty much agree with what's been said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But I do like Pates as well.

[PauloPerth]

 

Out of that list Kyle, I'd go:

Release

Craig Thomson, Keith Watson, Paul Paton, Ally Gilchrist, Denny Johnstone,  Chris Millar (I'd actually keep him and start him, but it is obvious TW doesn't want him so no point in him staying on sadly)

Keep and loan out

Mark Hurst, Callum Hendry, Greg Hurst

Keep as squad players (with a view to bringing in players to start ahead of them/ push them for places)

Blair Alston, Graham Cummins, Steven Maclean, Scott Tanser (undecided, bordering on release)

First team players

Alan Mannus, Murray Davidson, Steven Anderson

 

Undecided: Michael O'Halloran. Depends on the terms etc.

 

Its obvious we need a freshen up, but wholesale clearouts can be a massive gamble. We have a squad of players who have achieved a lot over the past six seasons, and there are some with a winning mentality that's hard to replace. For example, loads of folk go on about Maclean being past it, but I'd still have him in the squad, on the bench etc as a presence to push others on. He's also still more than capable of coming on and getting goals here and there.

Edited December 14, 2017 by PauloPerth

[The Saintee]

I can see Macca staying until he decides to retire.

[tree house tam]

26 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

I can see Macca staying until he decides to retire.

And I wouldn't be against it either

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As long as it was limited to taps aff in amongst the young team.

[john1962]

Do people have faith that Wright can identify any good players? As the cup winning team has dwindled or got older we have struggled more and more. Who would we call a really good player he has signed? I would have said Shaughnessy but with amount of goals we lose from cross balls that puts a shade on him too.

[john1962]

Do people have faith that Wright can identify any good players? As the cup winning team has dwindled or got older we have struggled more and more. Who would we call a really good player he has signed? I would have said Shaughnessy but with amount of goals we lose from cross balls that puts a shade on him too.

Ok did some research and there is Swanson, Easton, Wotherspoon O’Halloran and Dunne that I would call very good but it’s not that many in the big picture?

[Mr Heliums]

1 hour ago, The Saintee said:

I can see Macca staying until he decides to retire.

So can I. It worries me a bit,  more because of what it says of Tommy's loyalty to a fault. 

I certainly don't think Macca would be a first-choice striker for most Premiership teams, but it's been hard to argue against the other qualities ascribed to him - his ability to hold up play or his leadership qualities. How do you measure those? But it's clear is that Saints have been looking rudderless, so I'm not convinced of his contribution on that count hasn't been overstated.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Mr Heliums

[Kyle]

1 minute ago, G_Man1985 said:

Graham Cummins set for move back to Cork City from St Johnstone?

That would make quite a lot of sense as we do seem rather over subscribed up top with the signing of McMillan. I'd be alright with this.

[RandomGuy.]

Graham Cummins set for move back to Cork City from St Johnstone?

Any idea how much we're paying them?