Gordon Strachan

[troopio]

forameus if I am mess how come you are the one who reacts so angrily when someone calls you out or pokes fun at a light hearted bit of fun? doesn't matter if my views and posts are rubbish or not, every single time you have something to say about them, that's the point of a forum and that is fine, but you appear to do jump on certain comments and certain users as if it is something more than just some random on an internet forum....If you want to disparage individual users on this forum that's fine but I wont be lowering myself to calling people a mess like you do that's for sure.

[1320Lichtie]

Right so now after saying South Ireland have a better squad, you've changed your mind to say the squads are equal at best.

You've had one here son, and I'm going even going to bother reading the Forfar stuff, whatever that's about.

You did actually.

They do. I'm saying that no matter how deluded you are (ie you) the best you could possibly argue for is them being equal.

Aye don't bother reading that bit because it shows your earlier comment up as being stupid.

And no I did not.

[TheScarf]

They do. I'm saying that no matter how deluded you are (ie you) the best you could possibly argue for is them being equal.

Aye don't bother reading that bit because it shows your earlier comment up as being stupid.

And no I did not.

 

They don't, no matter how big a Celtic fan you are, which of course is massive.

 

The personal insults start as you've had one, like you have on numerous threads on this section of the forum.

 

And this is definitely you not discussing the matter any further with me.

[forameus]

forameus if I am mess how come you are the one who reacts so angrily when someone calls you out or pokes fun at a light hearted bit of fun? doesn't matter if my views and posts are rubbish or not, every single time you have something to say about them, that's the point of a forum and that is fine, but you appear to do jump on certain comments and certain users as if it is something more than just some random on an internet forum....If you want to disparage individual users on this forum that's fine but I wont be lowering myself to calling people a mess like you do that's for sure.

 

I'm not sure I ever really reacted "angrily".  I've usually just found it pretty entertaining that you seem so bothered about me in particular.  Also pretty entertained by your criticism of "disparaging individual users" when you've just said you want to buy someone who "rinsed" me on an internet forum a pint.  Curious.

 

But like you say, it's an internet forum.  I vehemently disagree with a lot of what you say, so I post in reply to you.  That's kind of how it works.  I've also disagreed with many others, and replied to them too.  Then sometimes I agree with people, and I reply to them too!  It's amazing this new fangled forum stuff.

 

You're welcome to have your own opinions, just expect that some people will disagree with them and call you on them.  Just like people will with me.  Calm down and stop taking everything so seriously.

[1320Lichtie]

They don't, no matter how big a Celtic fan you are, which of course is massive.

The personal insults start as you've had one, like you have on numerous threads on this section of the forum.

And this is definitely you not discussing the matter any further with me.

I'm not a Celtic fan at all. It's pretty clear to see.

And that was a stupid comment. You've said that Strachan has admitted he's a failure because he thinks we're better than some of the teams there. Even though those teams have qualified from completely different groups and circumstances. It's no difficult to see why that's a stupid thing to say.

I've made 10 posts that have been regarding O Neill, every ones been touting him for the job or in reply to a Montrose fan on about the Mo Brechin Derby that was mentioned during coverage.

[TheScarf]

I'm not a Celtic fan at all. It's pretty clear to see.

And that was a stupid comment. You've said that Strachan has admitted he's a failure because he thinks we're better than some of the teams there. Even though those teams have qualified from completely different groups and circumstances. It's no difficult to see why that's a stupid thing to say.

I've made 10 posts that have been regarding O Neill, every ones been touting him for the job or in reply to a Montrose fan on about the Mo Brechin Derby that was mentioned during coverage.

 

You're a massive Celtic fan.

 

South Ireland were in Scotland's group, have a worse squad that Scotland, and are at the Euros.  That's the best comparison there is I'm afraid, and I've used it.

 

You absolutely did say this. It may have been on the temp forum we had a couple of weeks back, it was definitely you.  You're the only user on this forum who defends Strachan to the hilt and uses South Ireland's results against other nations as the direct reason Scotland aren't in France.  

[1320Lichtie]

You're a massive Celtic fan.

South Ireland were in Scotland's group, have a worse squad that Scotland, and are at the Euros. That's the best comparison there is I'm afraid, and I've used it.

You absolutely did say this. It may have been on the temp forum we had a couple of weeks back, it was definitely you. You're the only user on this forum who defends Strachan to the hilt and uses South Ireland's results against other nations as the direct reason Scotland aren't in France.

Wrong on so many things once again Scarf, keep it up ðŸ‘ðŸ¼

[Dunning1874]

Georgia fucked it.

 

 

Yes, exactly, Georgia fucked it. It wasn't Poland or Ireland's results against Germany which were outwith our control, it wasn't a failure to get results against Poland and Ireland because our players aren't good enough to do so, as contrary to your claims they evidently are good enough to do so0. It was our failure to take anything from an entirely winnable game that should have been a stick-on 3 points.

 

Therefore, it is impossible conclude that the failure to make the playoffs was due to bad luck or our players not being good enough. We didn't qualify because we failed to beat Georgia, a side we are considerably better than. That can't be anyone but the manager's fault: we failed because Gordon Strachan didn't do his job well enough.

[forameus]

Yes, exactly, Georgia fucked it. It wasn't Poland or Ireland's results against Germany which were outwith our control, it wasn't a failure to get results against Poland and Ireland because our players aren't good enough to do so, as contrary to your claims they evidently are good enough to do so0. It was our failure to take anything from an entirely winnable game that should have been a stick-on 3 points.

 

Therefore, it is impossible conclude that the failure to make the playoffs was due to bad luck or our players not being good enough. We didn't qualify because we failed to beat Georgia, a side we are considerably better than. That can't be anyone but the manager's fault: we failed because Gordon Strachan didn't do his job well enough.

 

Agree with you right up until the last.  We failed because Gordon Strachan and the players didn't do their job well enough.  They deserve equal blame.

[dogmc]

Yes, exactly, Georgia fucked it. It wasn't Poland or Ireland's results against Germany which were outwith our control, it wasn't a failure to get results against Poland and Ireland because our players aren't good enough to do so, as contrary to your claims they evidently are good enough to do so0. It was our failure to take anything from an entirely winnable game that should have been a stick-on 3 points.

Therefore, it is impossible conclude that the failure to make the playoffs was due to bad luck or our players not being good enough. We didn't qualify because we failed to beat Georgia, a side we are considerably better than. That can't be anyone but the manager's fault: we failed because Gordon Strachan didn't do his job well enough.

Iceland have a poorer squad but better manager and came through a tougher group than ours. Can't believe anyone would seriously claim that Strachan is doing the best possible job with the resources available to him. Tragedy is when he screws the next campaign we will have to make a panic appointment between qualifiers again and start the whole depressing journey again.

[1320Lichtie]

Agree with you right up until the last. We failed because Gordon Strachan and the players didn't do their job well enough. They deserve equal blame.

Agree

Yes, exactly, Georgia fucked it. It wasn't Poland or Ireland's results against Germany which were outwith our control, it wasn't a failure to get results against Poland and Ireland because our players aren't good enough to do so, as contrary to your claims they evidently are good enough to do so0. It was our failure to take anything from an entirely winnable game that should have been a stick-on 3 points.

Therefore, it is impossible conclude that the failure to make the playoffs was due to bad luck or our players not being good enough. We didn't qualify because we failed to beat Georgia, a side we are considerably better than. That can't be anyone but the manager's fault: we failed because Gordon Strachan didn't do his job well enough.

Agree. It WAS a failure.

[Officer Barbrady]

Agree with you right up until the last.  We failed because Gordon Strachan and the players didn't do their job well enough.  They deserve equal blame.

So what didn't either of those do, that they ought to have? And what evidence is there, that things may change from September onwards? The public opinion on Strachan has changed dramatically since the final whistle against Poland. At that moment, it was straighforward, that we exited to teams who'd done better than us.

We didn't need the wisecracks, the paranoia, or the attempts at mindfuckery he has tried on the Scottish football public at every opportunity since, but they have provided an insight as to his motivational techniques, and it's obvious enough that they are consistent with our results. The proof of this is conclusive.

[forameus]

So what didn't either of those do, that they ought to have? And what evidence is there, that things may change from September onwards? The public opinion on Strachan has changed dramatically since the final whistle against Poland. At that moment, it was straighforward, that we exited to teams who'd done better than us. We didn't need the wisecracks, the paranoia, or the attempts at mindfuckery he has tried on the Scottish football public at every opportunity since, but they have provided an insight as to his motivational techniques, and it's obvious enough that they are consistent with our results. The proof of this is conclusive.

 

To your first question, in my eyes, Strachan should have set us out more positive to start with.  I think he thought that Georgia would be easier to roll over than they ended up being, and the players did too.  That's all well and good if they play nice and sit back looking for a point, but they outthought us.  They got a goal against the run of play, by which point we were up shit creek.  From that point on, there's not really much Strachan can do, short of hoping that Georgia make a mistake.  They didn't.  From the goal onwards, the players pretty much did nothing right.  They were slow, ponderous, and fumbling around the edge of the box not really knowing what to do.  So the blame scales swung from probably being 75/25 the managers fault, to the other direction as the game went on.

 

 

To your second...I'm not really sure what you want people to say?  What evidence is there that results like Georgia won't happen?  None.  Because results like that aren't really predictable.  The only thing I guess you could say is that Strachan will have learned not to underestimate teams like Georgia - so Lithuania this time around.  If you're being super-critical,  you could say that it started against Gibraltar when he played a ridiculous one-at-the-back system.  They scored, he realised his mistake and luckily we weren't punished.  By the time he realised his mistake against Georgia it was already too late.  Not sure if they're comparable though.

 

I'm not sure public opinion has changed.  The vast majority of the support in Faro supported him, but I agree that there's certainly more people that are critical of him now than there was before Georgia, say.  The rest of what you're saying is a massive stretch, and again it's coming down to seemingly just not liking him as a person.  His "techniques" seemed to be not too bad until we derailed in Tbilisi, and I'd say beyond that they weren't that bad either.  Again, this isn't like we had a Levein-esque tumbling out of contention after a handful of games, this was a mostly positive campaign soured by one absolute nightmare and a few - admittedly in hindsight - bad moments.  A failure, yes, but tough to draw parallels between people's personal dislike for him (which is fair enough) and the results. 

[pub car king]

Iceland and to a lesser extent Hungary and northern Ireland have shown the way forward in this tournament we are on a level with these teams and in some areas our players are better. There can be no excuses or negativity organise the team set then out to try and win games and play football.

[1320Lichtie]

Iceland and to a lesser extent Hungary and northern Ireland have shown the way forward in this tournament we are on a level with these teams and in some areas our players are better. There can be no excuses or negativity organise the team set then out to try and win games and play football.

I think we started this way under Strachan but it's all changed since Ireland away.

We do really need to have a change in attitude right the way through the set up. Even watching the youth teams we seem to be quite negative in our approach.

I don't know what's needed but something is. This 2020 thing we tried with Wotte seems doomed to failure.

[forameus]

Iceland and to a lesser extent Hungary and northern Ireland have shown the way forward in this tournament we are on a level with these teams and in some areas our players are better. There can be no excuses or negativity organise the team set then out to try and win games and play football.

 

But that's not right either.  Just saying "don't be negative" doesn't cut it.  If we go out and attack in every game, we will lose some games.  The correct way is to play negatively if the occasion demands it, and go for it in the other cases.

 

Look at Wales - they absolutely stank the place out against England, and could well have gotten something from the game.  But then they tore an admittedly poor Russia side to shreds.  If we come out against England, they will tear us apart too - look at every game they've had at this tournament.  But if we sit in against Malta and Lithuania, we could well have a Tbilisi on our hands.

[troopio]

has the clown Strachan come out said anything about how we only lost 1-0 to Italy yet Spain managed to lose 2-0 to them so we are therefore not as bad as people think even though it should have been 4 or 5? Perhaps he has finally learnt to STFU who knows.

 

No doubt will get abused just for breathing,  but on the subject of NI especially and its been discussed at length already I think, but how come Strachan constantly likes to moan about the fact that Scottish Players aren't playing to a high enough level or getting exposed European Football ie his faves at Celtic yet last time I checked Northern Ireland, who qualified with ease and made the knockouts are calling up and playing players from not only the Scottish Premiership but from Clubs no where near European Football!  So how come if playing for a Scottish Club is good enough for Northern Ireland to have faith in and they actually perform yet it isn't for Strachan?

[forameus]

So how come if playing for a Scottish Club is good enough for Northern Ireland to have faith in and they actually perform yet it isn't for Strachan?

 

Northern Ireland have an incredibly small pool of players to pick from.  I heard a stat of exactly how small it was, but can't remember exactly.  They have to pick, say, Josh Magennis because he's the best they have available.  Would they rather there was a Northern Irish striker playing in the EPL to a high degree?  You better believe it.  

 

It's never been "I'm not going to pick players playing in Scotland".  For the most part - although admittedly not in every squad - he's picked the best players we have available, from all over the place.  Any potential Premiership players are inferior to those that play elsewhere.  

 

If the Scottish league system suddenly gets better, then this'll cease to become an issue.  But we're always going to be the poorer cousin of the EPL.  If players are playing regularly there, against better quality, they're going to be better players.

 

EDIT: Having said that, it does seem - going by the friendly squads at least - that he is open to trying more Scottish players.  If it's a massive gulf between a Scottish option and otherwise, I wouldn't see what we'd gain by choosing the inferior one, but if it's close, there should always be spaces in the squad for seeing what players can do, at least in training.  

[Officer Barbrady]

But that's not right either.  Just saying "don't be negative" doesn't cut it.  If we go out and attack in every game, we will lose some games.  The correct way is to play negatively if the occasion demands it, and go for it in the other cases.

 

Look at Wales - they absolutely stank the place out against England, and could well have gotten something from the game.  But then they tore an admittedly poor Russia side to shreds.  If we come out against England, they will tear us apart too - look at every game they've had at this tournament.  But if we sit in against Malta and Lithuania, we could well have a Tbilisi on our hands.

Surprisingly, we agree on.something. Words like 'negative' or 'positive' can't really be used as blame for a team's failings, as attack and defence, in the modern game, represent the same thing.....stretching the example, but Cruyff's dream of the recent Barcelona sides, is based almost exclusively on tiring your opponents out in possession, to render them ineffective when they actually get the ball.

That's not what i'd describe as 'positive', but then again launching the ball 50 yards at a target man isn't what i'd call 'negative' either. It's all subjective, but to me a positive Scotland should press high, without the ball (even against the Lithuanias and Georgias) and force mistakes.

We're not creative, or especially skilled in the final third, so in my opinion, changing the game style of our attacking players from their usual club shift, takes a lot of their effectiveness. Enter the lowest common denominator.

[1320Lichtie]

Northern Ireland have an incredibly small pool of players to pick from. I heard a stat of exactly how small it was, but can't remember exactly. They have to pick, say, Josh Magennis because he's the best they have available. Would they rather there was a Northern Irish striker playing in the EPL to a high degree? You better believe it.

It's never been "I'm not going to pick players playing in Scotland". For the most part - although admittedly not in every squad - he's picked the best players we have available, from all over the place. Any potential Premiership players are inferior to those that play elsewhere.

If the Scottish league system suddenly gets better, then this'll cease to become an issue. But we're always going to be the poorer cousin of the EPL. If players are playing regularly there, against better quality, they're going to be better players.

EDIT: Having said that, it does seem - going by the friendly squads at least - that he is open to trying more Scottish players. If it's a massive gulf between a Scottish option and otherwise, I wouldn't see what we'd gain by choosing the inferior one, but if it's close, there should always be spaces in the squad for seeing what players can do, at least in training.

40 (forty) professional players.