forameus Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 So basically what you are saying is Scotland are shite and can't be taught anything other than to avoid defeat ? Because that certainly seems to be the case at the moment. This must be the Largs book of football coming back to bite us on the arse ! Players have a natural ceiling. They've shown nothing to suggest that taking a player out of the midfield will make us any better, no matter what they're "taught". What do you think they're doing with them now? They can't just say "get better" to defenders and the one remaining holding midfielder (or should we do away with him as well?) and expect them to cover all the missing ground. Hell, I'm not even convinced we have two strikers who'd work well enough together to justify it. Putting two strikers instead of one doesn't double your goals scored, but it could well double the goals conceded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 We didn't qualify because we weren't good enough defensively. Throwing another striker up front isn't going to change that. Look at the sides similar to us and how they play: NI, ROI, Iceland etc. Defend first and foremost. We scored four against Poland, three against Germany, two against Ireland. And yet only managed one win! How can you look at that and seriously suggest our issue is playing one up front..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Players have a natural ceiling. They've shown nothing to suggest that taking a player out of the midfield will make us any better, no matter what they're "taught". What do you think they're doing with them now? They can't just say "get better" to defenders and the one remaining holding midfielder (or should we do away with him as well?) and expect them to cover all the missing ground. Hell, I'm not even convinced we have two strikers who'd work well enough together to justify it. Putting two strikers instead of one doesn't double your goals scored, but it could well double the goals conceded. Instead of instilling damage limitation into their heads would it not be an idea to work on things like ball control at game speed, vision and awareness ? Surely if a player is considered good enough to play for his country , he should be able to work on improving his game ? By this I would expect all the squad to work together through the summer or at slack times. If they are serious about improving then surely a bit of extra effort is not asking too much of them. Honestly some of the lame excuses about players not being good enough is a crock of shit. Scottish players and coaches have become lazy and complacent . To be a winner you have to put the effort in and push yourself to the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Strachan just had four friendlies to try new combinations and formations and just wasted them picking the old guard and repeatedly ignoring potential fringe players. Fact is hes a busted flush who has run out of ideas and instead of giving ourselves several months to mount a serious considered search for a successor we will likely see him screw this campaign and then be forced into a panic driven selection between qualifiers. fringe players like who? look at the outcry when he had the audacity to mention guys like mckay and wallace who have been in good form consistently for the last season (and im sure there are others) scotland fans clamour for us to qualify from a group containing Ireland, Germany and Poland, 3 teams that have qualified for tournaments that we havent gotten near, but when fringe players are mentioned excuse after excuse not to play them is thrown up as i said above, scotland will continually struggle with patch up job after patch up job in qualifiers unless we as a whole, fans, management etc, give up one or two to gel and blend in a new squad with the best talent that HAVENT failed to qualify for previous tournaments, imo of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Instead of instilling damage limitation into their heads would it not be an idea to work on things like ball control at game speed, vision and awareness ? Surely if a player is considered good enough to play for his country , he should be able to work on improving his game ? By this I would expect all the squad to work together through the summer or at slack times. If they are serious about improving then surely a bit of extra effort is not asking too much of them. Honestly some of the lame excuses about players not being good enough is a crock of shit. Scottish players have become lazy and complacent . To be a winner you have to put the effort in and push yourself to the limit. all reasonable comments, however expecting the national team manager to implement changes like this when they should be doing shit like this at club level is nuts this thread is about strachan who gets the players together 5-6 times a season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 all reasonable comments, however expecting the national team manager to implement changes like this when they should be doing shit like this at club level is nuts this thread is about strachan who gets the players together 5-6 times a season That is my point. If a player wants to play for his country , the least he can do is try to get together with the rest of the squad on a more regular basis. Our standard of football is at an all time low . Surely someone at the SFA has the balls to demand a bit more effort from Strachan and the players ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 That is my point. If a player wants to play for his country , the least he can do is try to get together with the rest of the squad on a more regular basis. Our standard of football is at an all time low . Surely someone at the SFA has the balls to demand a bit more effort from Strachan and the players ? and when during a season when the top players in your country can be playing anything up to 50 games, do we get them together to work on stuff its good ideas, but never gonna happen, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 and when during a season when the top players in your country can be playing anything up to 50 games, do we get them together to work on stuff its good ideas, but never gonna happen, Sadly you are correct. But as I indicated , inactive summers like this one are wasted when players could have been together on specialised coaching camps. Apathy wins again. Anyway why should I be coming up with ideas like this? Surely the SFA and the Largs mafia are developing improvement plans as we speak ????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Putting two strikers instead of one doesn't double your goals scored, but it could well double the goals conceded. This is certainly true, but what is also true is that if we only play one up front and we aren't good enough to retain the ball and play a possession based game then lumping it long to that one is going to mean surrendering possession really quickly and seeing the opponents put us under more pressure. That's where we lose goals - our defenders aren't good enough to concentrate for such lengths of time. Hold the ball better, have an actual out ball rather than one immobile forward, lose fewer goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 This is certainly true, but what is also true is that if we only play one up front and we aren't good enough to retain the ball and play a possession based game then lumping it long to that one is going to mean surrendering possession really quickly and seeing the opponents put us under more pressure. That's where we lose goals - our defenders aren't good enough to concentrate for such lengths of time. Hold the ball better, have an actual out ball rather than one immobile forward, lose fewer goals. that is exatly the point I was making. If Strachan is not savvy enough to work that out and demand that players are taught basic ball control and all round awareness then he is not fit for purpose. Instead of raking in thousands from his witty one liners as a TV pundit he should be getting the coaches ( and his squad) together to work on the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 It's been some time since i darkened Hampden on a Scotland matchday, for the main reason that there was very little PROactive, and very poor, predictable REactive tendencies sweeping the corridors and the pitch/dugout. I'm mainly flatly bored by the way almost every team plays the exact same fucking way, and particularly because even Broon and Roxburgh were capable of assessing teams and games and trying to gain an advantage, rather than nominally stifle. The only remote success we enjoyed since, was basically a Northern Ireland style with Scottish players under Wattie and Eck. That said, i don't understand the shreiks of horror when mentioning that playing with a solitary striker, or anything other than a back four or middle five, is NOT the only way to play the game. Maybe i'm missing something, but let's surmise we utilise Rhodes and McCormack as a front two, and aim for Jack Charlton's Eire- style punts 'down the gulleys', which both excel at every weekend. Not only do we have one guy chasing things down at all times, the other is in and around the fucking box at all times. However the width is supplied, be it wing-backs or two from four, aids things further forward, and not an area we're especially weak in. Then comes the shroud.....a midfielder, from anywhere in the world, his job is to help keep his team as high up the pitch as possible. Our strongest area, by far, and always has been in my lifetime. It doesn't look difficult for Allen, or Whelan, or Davis to do this job well, but apparently is too difficult for players of the exact same standard (i'm looking at Fletcher, McArthur and Charlie Adam here specifically, Morrison and Dorrans less so). This basic instruction isn't even being adminstered, yet the manager is apparently doing a great job. Our team looks clueless until the oponents decide what kind of game we're going to play, and that is the most damning aspect of the whole mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoriginalhedge Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 It's been some time since i darkened Hampden on a Scotland matchday, for the main reason that there was very little PROactive, and very poor, predictable REactive tendencies sweeping the corridors and the pitch/dugout. I'm mainly flatly bored by the way almost every team plays the exact same fucking way, and particularly because even Broon and Roxburgh were capable of assessing teams and games and trying to gain an advantage, rather than nominally stifle. The only remote success we enjoyed since, was basically a Northern Ireland style with Scottish players under Wattie and Eck. That said, i don't understand the shreiks of horror when mentioning that playing with a solitary striker, or anything other than a back four or middle five, is NOT the only way to play the game. Maybe i'm missing something, but let's surmise we utilise Rhodes and McCormack as a front two, and aim for Jack Charlton's Eire- style punts 'down the gulleys', which both excel at every weekend. Not only do we have one guy chasing things down at all times, the other is in and around the fucking box at all times. However the width is supplied, be it wing-backs or two from four, aids things further forward, and not an area we're especially weak in. Then comes the shroud.....a midfielder, from anywhere in the world, his job is to help keep his team as high up the pitch as possible. Our strongest area, by far, and always has been in my lifetime. It doesn't look difficult for Allen, or Whelan, or Davis to do this job well, but apparently is too difficult for players of the exact same standard (i'm looking at Fletcher, McCarthy and Charlie Adam here specifically, Morrison and Dorrans less so). This basic instruction isn't even being adminstered, yet the manager is apparently doing a great job. Our team looks clueless until the oponents decide what kind of game we're going to play, and that is the most damning aspect of the whole mess. Is the Eire / NI way not the way Scotland used to play before the Largs mafia got involved ? Play to your strengths and get the best out of the players you have has been a winning formula in the Euros this year . I say again, why are we the ones offering suggestions ? Why can't Strachan see what we see ? Ah yes , because the fans know f**k all according to the hierarchy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 I wouldn't say we specialized in any particular style of play in our past, except hard but fair. Even in the 90s we had a degree of flair in midfield, which we had a helluva smug arrogance about (rightly so). We always seemed to go for the abstract, unconventional methods, which looked fucking great when they worked, but sadly not often enough. Under Jackie, a lot of Eire fans blamed him for ending the careers of Brady, Sheedy, Whelan and many others when they were of no use to his Luftwaffe style....but frankly, in the absence of Souness, McStay, McAllister, Collins and Lambert-quality, i'd gladly settle for that little jobby at least giving it a try, or the SFA hiring a c**t who will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggisbeastie Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 It's been some time since i darkened Hampden on a Scotland matchday, for the main reason that there was very little PROactive, and very poor, predictable REactive tendencies sweeping the corridors and the pitch/dugout. I'm mainly flatly bored by the way almost every team plays the exact same fucking way, and particularly because even Broon and Roxburgh were capable of assessing teams and games and trying to gain an advantage, rather than nominally stifle. The only remote success we enjoyed since, was basically a Northern Ireland style with Scottish players under Wattie and Eck. That said, i don't understand the shreiks of horror when mentioning that playing with a solitary striker, or anything other than a back four or middle five, is NOT the only way to play the game. Maybe i'm missing something, but let's surmise we utilise Rhodes and McCormack as a front two, and aim for Jack Charlton's Eire- style punts 'down the gulleys', which both excel at every weekend. Not only do we have one guy chasing things down at all times, the other is in and around the fucking box at all times. However the width is supplied, be it wing-backs or two from four, aids things further forward, and not an area we're especially weak in. Then comes the shroud.....a midfielder, from anywhere in the world, his job is to help keep his team as high up the pitch as possible. Our strongest area, by far, and always has been in my lifetime. It doesn't look difficult for Allen, or Whelan, or Davis to do this job well, but apparently is too difficult for players of the exact same standard (i'm looking at Fletcher, McArthur and Charlie Adam here specifically, Morrison and Dorrans less so). This basic instruction isn't even being adminstered, yet the manager is apparently doing a great job. Our team looks clueless until the oponents decide what kind of game we're going to play, and that is the most damning aspect of the whole mess. We have been playing more football these days and I hope we don't abandon that to go back to what opponents called "non-football", to get short term results and a delusion of our status. This would end up setting us back further in the medium term. I think we have a number of good young footballers coming through that will able to execute our style of play to a higher standard very soon. The rest is just belief and getting out of our "wee Scotland" mentality, that seems to cost us at the end of every campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted June 24, 2016 Share Posted June 24, 2016 Thats just it....our young players are playing the game to current trends, with no capacity for adaptation when faced with other nations' advancements until it's too late. The game is constantly evolving, tiny pieces at a time, but at a much faster rate than we appear to. What the f**k exactly did the South, for example, do to Italy, to have the smallest Irishman on the pitch tear between two modern-day brutes in Bonucci and Barzagli? Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane know what they did. And they made fucking sure every single player did before stepping on that park. The game looks too confusing at times for our players, so i'm trying to suggest a fairly simple method to dumb it down for them. It raised Eire and Northern Ireland from decades of slumber in the 80s, to great success.....aren't we in that boat now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need2Speak2Caesar Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 We need to completely revamp the SFA. We need a complete clear out because they are quite clearly incompetent. They don't seem to give a flyer and are happy just to be taking the punters hard earned dosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Officer Barbrady Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Now now. Steady on. Don't you know that Regan is the most succesful CEO in the history of the SFA, why would this need revamped?!?!?! To consistently fill stadia with among the highest crowds in Europe for internationals, to watch that crap, charging the prices they do (remember, it's just like watching Calvin Harris or Rihanna, other world-renowned performers, according to this p***k) is nothing short of amazing. The figures are a bigger endorsement of the fans' backing, than any other aspect of his reign, and like his team manager, a word cannot be said against him from the majority. Farry was hounded out for less than a tenth the size of f**k-up/cover-up which this tool has overseen, yet the kilted buffoons simply can't see past their beloved failures, and give him the same excuses to fall back on when pressed on 'who else is there' to manage the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Nobody can seriously say that countries like N.Ireland and the Republic have a better squad of players than us. And yet they find themselves in the last 16 of the Euro's. The reason behind their success is they both have a manager capable of getting the absolute best out of their players, managers who unlike Strachan dont spend their time moaning about the lack of a superstar in their team, they are able to work with and get the best out of what they have. In comparison, Strachan by his own admission still doesn't know the best way to set us up in games. He talks about progress being made, I see no progress whatsoever, only failure. Not finishing third in the qualifying group, finishing only above Georgia and Gibraltar was a complete and utter failure and should have seen him sacked without hesitation. The 'scenes' in Faro after the Gibraltar game, sum us up perfectly. We are a Nation who are happy to accept failure. This 'another glorious failure' bullshit, nothing glorious about seeing every other home nation not only qualify but also make it through to the last 16. And then there's the insistence of continuing to play the likes of Greer and Maloney, players who should have no future in our team whatsoever. The man should be punted right now, before he has the chance to f**k up another qualifying campaign. Indeed. Anyone who thinks either Irish squad is better than Scotland's needs sectioned. They have far better managers, tacticians and motivators. And I still think Martin O'Neill is average at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeredbook Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 He isn't very good .He isn't very funny . His employers are not fit for purpose . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DAVIDB69 Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Personally think we should offer how much it takes to temp Michael oneill but he will be going a lot higher than Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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